Is Korrasami to Tame?

[hammerofglass]

Willow and Tara may or may not have been fine for it's day but now carries a very problematic undercurrent of "bisexuality does not exist".

Willow goes from having several boyfriends/crushes to "total lesbianism" in the space of a couple of episodes. There is even one episode when under the effects of a love spell she tries to magically change the sex of the guy in question!

Whedon is good at ideas, not at execution of said ideas. We are probably better off with our one season of Firefly tbh.

On the one hand yeah the "bisexuals don't exist" implication is definitely there in the way it was presented.

On the other hand I HAVE seen a friend do that "thinking they're straight to realizing they're 100% gay over a couple days" thing in real life.

[stryke]

Whedon is good at ideas, not at execution of said ideas. We are probably better off with our one season of Firefly tbh.

It's been well documented that if there had been more there would have been a scene of the courtesan character having been gangraped by reapers and having killed them all with her poison snatch, and it would have been used to bring her and Filian's character closer together. Yeah, we definitely lucked out. Also hey no Firefly meant we got Castle and that was a fun show until it wasn't.

It's amusing in retrospect, as there was a notorious blog post that did the rounds online back in the day decrying the false feminism of Firefly and pointed out all the ways it was in fact really shitty. As you can imagine the writer got absolutely crucified, as this was Firefly, you can't be mean to Firefly, that's the internet's most precious darling. Now I read it then too, I thought it was pretty unfair, and it certainly was over the top and rather hyperbolic in places, but dang if in the long run she wasn't proved to be at least not totally incorrect, and that we should have been paying more attention to what she had to say back then.

[clearspira]

Whedon is good at ideas, not at execution of said ideas. We are probably better off with our one season of Firefly tbh.

It's been well documented that if there had been more there would have been a scene of the courtesan character having been gangraped by reapers and having killed them all with her poison snatch, and it would have been used to bring her and Filian's character closer together. Yeah, we definitely lucked out. Also hey no Firefly meant we got Castle and that was a fun show until it wasn't.

It's amusing in retrospect, as there was a notorious blog post that did the rounds online back in the day decrying the false feminism of Firefly and pointed out all the ways it was in fact really shitty. As you can imagine the writer got absolutely crucified, as this was Firefly, you can't be mean to Firefly, that's the internet's most precious darling. Now I read it then too, I thought it was pretty unfair, and it certainly was over the top and rather hyperbolic in places, but dang if in the long run she wasn't proved to be at least not totally incorrect, and that we should have been paying more attention to what she had to say back then.

There is quite a bit of false feminism in Buffy too. I was going to mention that she has a breakdown and runs away from home over her boyfriend leaving her and that is really anti to her independent asskicker vibe, but then i remembered partway through writing this about that time when Spike friggin' raped her and her response was to sit around crying in her bathroom instead of, I don't know, just brainstorming here... SLAYING HIM. Preferably by putting the stake straight through his nuts.

And just to be clear here im not saying that she cannot cry. I'm saying that a vampire reducing the friggin' Vampire Slayer to tears is BS - especially THIS Slayer of all Slayers.

I'm reminded of Linkara's quote during Identity Crisis about how rape is something that bad writers use not because they have something to say about rape, but because it is something that "happens to women". This is the purest example of that I can think of. And that relationship was toxic as hell too which is not the message to be sending it's young teenage audience of both sexes.

And wow, we really should have been looking at Whedon's red flags earlier.

[Thebestoftherest]

I don't know could she hit something so tiny?

[hammerofglass]

She raped him too in another episode. That one where she's invisible. The series treated it like a joke but that doesn't mean we have to.

Actually I don't think any of their hookups had consent, just one of them kept going until the other stopped saying 'no'.

[Nobody700]

I ALWAYS Hated Buffy and Spike. Blegh, what an awful couple. But you guys want misogyny? Look no further than the WORST EPISODE OF ANGEL AND BUFFY COMBINED

The Girl in question. An episode all about Buffy being considered a no good SLUT for hanging with this joke character we never heard of who is just banging her all across the world. That everything Buffy set up to help the slayers and fight the demons and take back the power? Lies. She isn't going to Angel to ask why he's the CEO of Wolfram and Hart, or how Spike is alive, or what's the deal with this death curse that almost killed tens of millions... Nah, she's a 'flimsy lil slut' for this UBER COOL AWESOME VAMPIRE DUDE, WOAHHHHHH and Angel and Spike constantly go into how DUMB Buffy is and she totally would just be this guys bitch. The clear and absolute hatred of women in this episode is... dumbfounding. Buffy is given NO agency, no character, no explanation, she really is just a tool to make two dudes mad. Oh yeah, the main character of the Buffyverse and the big hero and saviour of women from the demons and vampires? She ends Buffy... AT AN ITALIAN PARTY BEING GROPED BY A GUY WHO WE DON'T EVEN SEE AS ANGEL AND SPIKE WRITE HER OFF AS A BIMBO!

[stryke]

Can't forget everything with Cordelia, and worse done to not just her character but her actress too on Charisma Carpenter. The very first sign for some people, or at least it was for me, that Joss Whedon might not be entirely a goodie was his handling of her pregnancy, and it felt like he was vindictively punishing the character for what he thought were sins of the actress, and making the show significantly worse in the process. That whole third season was super rough.

If anything it was for the best that whole Justice League mess happened as it finally gave Charisma Carpenter a chance to publically put the boot in, and this time a lot more people were listening.

[hammerofglass]

I ALWAYS Hated Buffy and Spike. Blegh, what an awful couple. But you guys want misogyny? Look no further than the WORST EPISODE OF ANGEL AND BUFFY COMBINED

The Girl in question. An episode all about Buffy being considered a no good SLUT for hanging with this joke character we never heard of who is just banging her all across the world. That everything Buffy set up to help the slayers and fight the demons and take back the power? Lies. She isn't going to Angel to ask why he's the CEO of Wolfram and Hart, or how Spike is alive, or what's the deal with this death curse that almost killed tens of millions... Nah, she's a 'flimsy lil slut' for this UBER COOL AWESOME VAMPIRE DUDE, WOAHHHHHH and Angel and Spike constantly go into how DUMB Buffy is and she totally would just be this guys bitch. The clear and absolute hatred of women in this episode is... dumbfounding. Buffy is given NO agency, no character, no explanation, she really is just a tool to make two dudes mad. Oh yeah, the main character of the Buffyverse and the big hero and saviour of women from the demons and vampires? She ends Buffy... AT AN ITALIAN PARTY BEING GROPED BY A GUY WHO WE DON'T EVEN SEE AS ANGEL AND SPIKE WRITE HER OFF AS A BIMBO!

I vaguely remember hearing that was a tie-in to the Buffy comic and that wasn't really her. I don't know if it's true but I consider it my personal canon for the sake of my sanity.

Doesn't reduce the misogyny one bit, of course.

[Thebestoftherest]

Whedon is good at ideas, not at execution of said ideas. We are probably better off with our one season of Firefly tbh.

It's been well documented that if there had been more there would have been a scene of the courtesan character having been gangraped by reapers and having killed them all with her poison snatch, and it would have been used to bring her and Filian's character closer together. Yeah, we definitely lucked out. Also hey no Firefly meant we got Castle and that was a fun show until it wasn't.

It's amusing in retrospect, as there was a notorious blog post that did the rounds online back in the day decrying the false feminism of Firefly and pointed out all the ways it was in fact really shitty. As you can imagine the writer got absolutely crucified, as this was Firefly, you can't be mean to Firefly, that's the internet's most precious darling. Now I read it then too, I thought it was pretty unfair, and it certainly was over the top and rather hyperbolic in places, but dang if in the long run she wasn't proved to be at least not totally incorrect, and that we should have been paying more attention to what she had to say back then.

There is quite a bit of false feminism in Buffy too. I was going to mention that she has a breakdown and runs away from home over her boyfriend leaving her and that is really anti to her independent asskicker vibe, but then i remembered partway through writing this about that time when Spike friggin' raped her and her response was to sit around crying in her bathroom instead of, I don't know, just brainstorming here... SLAYING HIM. Preferably by putting the stake straight through his nuts.

And just to be clear here im not saying that she cannot cry. I'm saying that a vampire reducing the friggin' Vampire Slayer to tears is BS - especially THIS Slayer of all Slayers.

I'm reminded of Linkara's quote during Identity Crisis about how rape is something that bad writers use not because they have something to say about rape, but because it is something that "happens to women". This is the purest example of that I can think of. And that relationship was toxic as hell too which is not the message to be sending it's young teenage audience of both sexes.

And wow, we really should have been looking at Whedon's red flags earlier.

I think Diamanda Hagan said it best, "So please stop believing him and judge him by what he does not what he says", she was talking about Russel T Davies but it works here as well.

[Nobody700]

On the Buffy and Cordelia thing, first, that was season 4 of Angel...

AND HOLY GOD WAS THAT BAD! Cordelia was a rapist pedophile who brought the god of evil to the earth because... BECAUSE! Season 5 had to retcon that she was DEAD all along and the god wore her body and she had a FAR better ending... except even Charisma had no idea Cordelia was dead till THE SCENE FILMING IT! Which... I like that episode a lot but screw the hell off, what an awful way to tell an actress who been there since day one and has been professional and nice! Season 4 was pure trash with only three decent episodes, and 20 episodes of GARBAGE... and ONE of those good episodes was about Las Vegas having an evil casino cause gambling is like, stealing your soul man...

The Buffy tie in had to explain that was a fake because of how sexist the actual episode was. Holy crap was that episode awful to Buffy AND Sarah Michelle Geller, cause Joss was mad she wouldn't return for Angel. Yeah, he wrote the whole episode JUST to say fuck you to her. Which, uh, fuck you bro. I LIKE Angel a lot, but man... you can SEE his sins so hard. Season 4 of Angel turning Cordelia into an evil pedo monster is pure evil, and the only other case of this I can recall is when the head show runner for Arrow and Flash ON PURPOSE made the women suck and suffer and be annoying because they refused to BANG HIM! If you guys want 'I hate women' the episode, watch The Flash girls night out. I could write an essay on how that episode HATES WOMEN TO THEIR CORE.