Discuss DS9's Final Season

[stryke]

That reminds me, it would have been an interesting rather than ditching her asap instead keeping that Romulan lady around to be charge of the cloaking device. She also could have been promoted to main cast to replace Dax when she was killed off.

[clearspira]

DS9's final season reminds me a lot of TNGs finsl season and even Babylon 5's final season. There is a prevailing sense of ennui (aka tiredness) about it. All of the good ideas are done, and what is left are the back up ideas.

It has also been noted that Moore has this habit of not being able to finish what he starts. He tends to fret and throw in magic or God as a placeholder.

The most interesting idea imo is Ezri, she just wasn't executed very well. I actually kind of think we needed her a few seasons earlier. DS9 never leant into the multiple hosts idea to my satisfaction. They had a great opportunity to shake up the status quo with an actor change every couple of seasons but they never went for it.

[McAvoy]

DS9's final season reminds me a lot of TNGs finsl season and even Babylon 5's final season. There is a prevailing sense of ennui (aka tiredness) about it. All of the good ideas are done, and what is left are the back up ideas.

It has also been noted that Moore has this habit of not being able to finish what he starts. He tends to fret and throw in magic or God as a placeholder.

The most interesting idea imo is Ezri, she just wasn't executed very well. I actually kind of think we needed her a few seasons earlier. DS9 never leant into the multiple hosts idea to my satisfaction. They had a great opportunity to shake up the status quo with an actor change every couple of seasons but they never went for it.

I don't see any tiredness in the final season of DS9. Ezri alone helped made things different and fresh giving the writers new ideas. But even then having Jadzia instead I don't think too much would have changed.

The casino and baseball episodes were indulgence episodes and not a reflection on a lack of ideas.

[clearspira]

DS9's final season reminds me a lot of TNGs finsl season and even Babylon 5's final season. There is a prevailing sense of ennui (aka tiredness) about it. All of the good ideas are done, and what is left are the back up ideas.

It has also been noted that Moore has this habit of not being able to finish what he starts. He tends to fret and throw in magic or God as a placeholder.

The most interesting idea imo is Ezri, she just wasn't executed very well. I actually kind of think we needed her a few seasons earlier. DS9 never leant into the multiple hosts idea to my satisfaction. They had a great opportunity to shake up the status quo with an actor change every couple of seasons but they never went for it.

I don't see any tiredness in the final season of DS9. Ezri alone helped made things different and fresh giving the writers new ideas. But even then having Jadzia instead I don't think too much would have changed.

The casino and baseball episodes were indulgence episodes and not a reflection on a lack of ideas.

I dunno man. I see where you are coming from, i do, but my overall sense here is very much of ''throwing stuff at the wall and see what sticks''.

Making Ben Sisko pretty much literally Jesus complete with an immaculate birth for example. That is just plain terrible writing. It is cliche and it is out of left field. I am willing to be corrected here but I do not recall so much as a HINT of this in the six seasons prior to this. Sisko is a prophet. Not Jesus. Not Heracles.

And similarly, making Dukat Satan is just plain terrible writing too. Again, before the end of season 6, this absolutely is not Dukat. He is a man of science. He lives to ridicule god and religion as nonsense. The only time he even slightly relented on that is with Ziyal and even then he called the Bajoran religion as backward superstitions to her face. And now suddenly he has a magic book and wants to set fire to the galaxy?? He never ever wanted to kill for killing's sake. He wants to rule. To conquer. To bone hot women. To have fifty statues dedicated to him. To have the Bajorans look upon him with doting reverence and vote to have him back as their prefect. That is his goal.

Here is my favourite Dukat quote because it describes his character beautifully:

Gul Dukat: A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place, to force them to acknowledge your greatness!
Weyoun: Then you kill them?
Gul Dukat: Only if it's necessary.

Do you see what I mean here? About throwing it at the wall? Character motivations and backstories are just pulled out of nowhere to try and make this ending stick.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Sisko was fully problematic as a character. I don't see a real Jesus parallel, practically speaking.

A righteous martyr, sure, but that's a very small part of what was going on around Jesus' crucifixion.

[Durandal_1707]

Sisko was fully problematic as a character. I don't see a real Jesus parallel, practically speaking.

A righteous martyr, sure, but that's a very small part of what was going on around Jesus' crucifixion.

Prior to Season 7, yeah. But here, they're giving him a divinely arranged birth and everything.

I'd put the "ran out of ideas" point a little earlier, though; I put it squarely at "Sacrifice of Angels." That was a thrilling finale to the occupation arc, but once that was over it really felt like the writers had no idea what to do after that. Seriously, other than "Pale Moonlight" and "Far Beyond the Stars", you could lose almost everything that happened in that season post-Occupation without missing much.

[McAvoy]

I just wouldn't say they ran out of ideas just because Sisko became a Space Jesus. They were doing more with Sisko before Season 7 that involved more than Sisko just being an Emissary to the Prophets. He was starting to become a Prophet for the Prophets.

Maybe they jumped the shark with making Sisko being a Space Jesus but I just don't see it as running out of ideas. I think making Dukat the Space Devil/Anti-Christ was more about trying to keep Dukat relevant to the end the series between him and Sisko. While accidently ending his series arc in The Walz.

They had plenty of storylines. Damar's rebellion. The Breen weapon. Klingon stories. The lead up with the Pah Wraiths. The Founder illness and Section 31. All of these are plenty to work with. Maybe some don't like it, but to me it doesn't sound like they ran out of ideas.

[stryke]

I think the only one of those that really worked of those was Damar's character arc and rebellion, then they have him die so fast it'll give you whiplash, and then he's never mentioned again.

[Riedquat]

I just wouldn't say they ran out of ideas just because Sisko became a Space Jesus. They were doing more with Sisko before Season 7 that involved more than Sisko just being an Emissary to the Prophets. He was starting to become a Prophet for the Prophets.

Maybe they jumped the shark with making Sisko being a Space Jesus but I just don't see it as running out of ideas. I think making Dukat the Space Devil/Anti-Christ was more about trying to keep Dukat relevant to the end the series between him and Sisko. While accidently ending his series arc in The Walz.

They had plenty of storylines. Damar's rebellion. The Breen weapon. Klingon stories. The lead up with the Pah Wraiths. The Founder illness and Section 31. All of these are plenty to work with. Maybe some don't like it, but to me it doesn't sound like they ran out of ideas.

I don't know, turning Dukat from the franchise's most interesting villain to a pantomime villain smacks of desperation.

[clearspira]

I just wouldn't say they ran out of ideas just because Sisko became a Space Jesus. They were doing more with Sisko before Season 7 that involved more than Sisko just being an Emissary to the Prophets. He was starting to become a Prophet for the Prophets.

Maybe they jumped the shark with making Sisko being a Space Jesus but I just don't see it as running out of ideas. I think making Dukat the Space Devil/Anti-Christ was more about trying to keep Dukat relevant to the end the series between him and Sisko. While accidently ending his series arc in The Walz.

They had plenty of storylines. Damar's rebellion. The Breen weapon. Klingon stories. The lead up with the Pah Wraiths. The Founder illness and Section 31. All of these are plenty to work with. Maybe some don't like it, but to me it doesn't sound like they ran out of ideas.

I don't know, turning Dukat from the franchise's most interesting villain to a pantomime villain smacks of desperation.

Pantomime villain is correct. The obvious course of action to keep Dukat relevant would be a redemption arc whereby he dies trying to free Cardassia. I said before that this man wants power and adulation. But he also does care dearly for Cardassia - or at least, the romantic version of it inside his head. I do not believe that Dukat would have allowed the Dominion to target Cardassian cities. I also do not think that he would have been all that impressed by Weyoun giving over Cardassian territory to the Breen either.

I think my version of season 7 would also improve Jadzia's death who, lets be honest about this, joins Tasha Yar and Trip Tucker on the bullshit main character death scale. ''Devil Dukat teleports in and kills her in five seconds flat'' is really, really, lame. Dukat can still be the one to kill her (although that would have truly made him irredeemable in the eyes of the audience so Weyoun would have been a better choice), but after an epic firefight, maybe even on-board the ship that Ezri is on so that we can actually see the choice that she had to make between her old life and that of the next host to the Dax symbiont.

I put it to y'all that if you changed absolutely nothing about Ezri... but had her introduction being to clutch Jadzia's blood-soaked dying hand in tears instead of having her cheerfully opening the door to Sisko's restaurant, she would have had more fans than she does now.