Star Wars: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

[MithrandirOlorin]

The idea that Luke spent a month on Dagabah you do NOT get from the movies themselves, it comes from external stuff. Frankly when you just watch it the time-frame in Empire seems just as short as in this movie.

I've always considered it an issue when Luke left Dagabah with the movie clearly saying he needed more training. But then when he finally returns Yoda says he doesn't need anymore. Frankly I think that is way more difficult to make sense of then Rey's development.

At least in the Prequel the story presented makes perfect sense of why the growth in skill all happens off screen between the films, so the films can focus on the devleopment of Anakin's character.

[SlackerinDeNile]

That's actually quite a good point, although in defense of Luke's character, he was kind of a force prodigy and he also taught himself a great deal of force mastery in between the OT films. I get the impression he had some help from Obi-Wan's ghost in between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.

I don't mean to jab at the prequels but I actually would have preferred if a longer amount of time had passed between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, say around ten years. This would have given more time for Anakin to become a darker, desensitised and more militaristic person on the verge of becoming Darth Vader and it would have given even more credibility to Palpatine's manipulations of the senate and the Republic.

[PerrySimm]

pulling off mind tricks,

Again, she managed to push Kylo Ren out of her mind, and then it took her three tries to manipulate a Storm Trooper (who we’ve established are weak minded). Considering what she just did, this is not at all hard to see.

Mental powers require mental discipline and focus. Now, in Rey's defence, it doesn't necessarily have to be bestowed from rigid adherence to a fossilized monastic order. But understanding has to come from somewhere. If you're willing to accept otherwise one may as well tear up all the textbooks and say "The Force will do your homework" !

Then again, the mind games department is probably one thing The Last Jedi gets right, at least a lot better than VII. Though ever unflappable, Rey doesn't totally understand what's going on with Snoke's mind games, and doesn't have an effortless command of this heretofore unknown thing.

[Admiral X]

and like I said earlier...Luke get's NO on screen lightsaber training from Yoda but manages to hold his own against Vader for awhile in ESB then defeat him in ROTJ.

Did we watch the same movies? Because in the movies I saw, ESB in particular, it's clear Luke isn't holding his own so much as Vader is fucking with him. Luke is putting everything he has into the fight, using both hands and his whole body into to the duel, and Vader is only using one hand and is very conservative with his movements. That fight is more about Vader assessing what Luke can and can't do, hence the part where he comments on how impressed he is with Luke's abilities when he knew he had hardly any time to learn anything from Obi-Wan. Vader only gets serious when Luke manages to land a glancing blow on his shoulder, and it's very quickly after that when he takes Luke's hand. In RotJ it's much the same thing, with Luke only gaining the upper hand when he gives in to his anger, as in, gives himself over to the dark side. And when he looks at how he's chopped off Vader's hand and looks at his own mechanical replacement, he realizes that the vision in the cave is coming true and steps back from it. Say what you will about RotJ, at least it had that going for it, and it had way more depth to it than anything that's come since then, including these new movies, which seem more interested in being another Guardians of the Galaxy than anything else.

[MithrandirOlorin]

Guardians of the Galaxy 2 is a better movie then of the original Star Wars trilogy.

[Ordo]

and like I said earlier...Luke get's NO on screen lightsaber training from Yoda but manages to hold his own against Vader for awhile in ESB then defeat him in ROTJ.

Did we watch the same movies? Because in the movies I saw, ESB in particular, it's clear Luke isn't holding his own so much as Vader is fucking with him.

Which is comparable to Rey doing well against Kylo Ren who has been shot in the gut, struck in the shoulder and trying to take Rey alive during their first fight. Even then she only 'wins' when she let's the force in.

Luke is putting everything he has into the fight, using both hands and his whole body into to the duel, and Vader is only using one hand and is very conservative with his movements. That fight is more about Vader assessing what Luke can and can't do, hence the part where he comments on how impressed he is with Luke's abilities when he knew he had hardly any time to learn anything from Obi-Wan. Vader only gets serious when Luke manages to land a glancing blow on his shoulder, and it's very quickly after that when he takes Luke's hand.

It's worth pointing out that Luke managed to knock Vader off a ledge after pulling a 'leap' that Vader called 'Impressive'. That is when Vader got serious and began fighting smart, slamming things into Luke from a distance. Kylo Ren, is not Vader, he doesn't have anywhere near Vader's control or experience, what he does have is raw power and talent...but that is NOT enough to allow him to beat Rey during TFA...a fact that Snoke chews him out over.

"You were unbalanced."

In RotJ it's much the same thing, with Luke only gaining the upper hand when he gives in to his anger, as in, gives himself over to the dark side.

Actually, Luke kicked Vader down the stairs at one point, and was trying not to fight his father. In his anger he completel overwhelmed Vader later...but he was honestly doing just fine before that.


youtu.be/gFCAsuo9c5A

This is also the reason I don't have a problem with Luke drawing his Saber when he saw just how far Ben had slipped into Darkness. Luke is saying he won't fight his father, but push his buttons and he does exactly that. He eventually tosses away his Saber but he was skating pretty close to the Darkside throughout it all.


youtu.be/LyTk09EHEU

One word about his Sister and Luke all but abandons his goal to 'save' his father and attacks with enough fury to completely overwhelm Vader. To me, this shows that the potential for such Dark Actions are within Luke, and he has to WORK at doing the right thing...it doesn't always come easy. To his credit, he calmed down and realized what he was doing, unfortunately, the Snap-Hiss of a lightsaber is a pretty distinctive sound, and I'm not surprised Ben woke up when he did.

[Admiral X]

Guardians of the Galaxy 2 is a better movie then of the original Star Wars trilogy.

[SabreMau]

Yeah, I went back and rewatched the scene and all Kylo's wingmen do get shot down. Turns out he goes in with three of them. One of them is blown up on initial approach, the other two bomb the bridge, one gets blown up while circling around, Hux radios Ren and tells him to fall back because they can't cover him at that range, and the third TIE gets shot down shortly after.

Still seems a bit odd that they were able to provide cover at X distance but not X+1 distance. I mean, they weren't providing literal cover for the TIEs to hide behind, and the suppressive fire apparently had the sole function of lighting up the shields, which the fighters could bypass at will anyway. It wasn't to draw the gunners' attention away from the TIEs, maybe at best it was to make them take energy away from anti-air guns and boost shields with it, like the old X-Wing/TIE Fighter power allocation system. The whole slow-speed chase plot hinges around this maximum range of cannons where they're effective and dangerous on this side of a line, but just a minor nuisance to shielded craft on the other side of it.

[Ordo]

If one of the Capital ships the Rebels had was specifically designed to kill fighters...but it had to allocate all it's energy to shields or risk being blown up by the Supremacy, then the moment it's beyond the envelop of the Supremacy it can wipe out Kylo.

[Ordo]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2 ... 74eabc669d

Interesting.