The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

This forum is for discussing Chuck's videos as they are publicly released. And for bashing Neelix, but that's just repeating what I already said.
G-Man
Officer
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:59 am

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by G-Man »

I'm sort of surprised that Padme being the focus of Anakin's fall wasn't planned a lot earlier - I know that at least one of the ads for "Attack of the Clones" emphasized that Jedis were not supposed to "know love" juxtaposed with a picture of Anakin and Padme. The implication seemed to be that Anakin breaking with the Jedi rules was going to be part of his fall.
"You say I'm a dreamer/we're two of a kind/looking for some perfect world/we know we'll never find" - Thompson Twins
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by Yukaphile »

I was a bit disappointed that Chuck never brought up how Disney decanonized the Legends EU to make room for their new movies. Since Disney is a big company that cares only about making money, there is a certain spark of creativity that is being lost with their new contributions to the franchise, while Lucas was always a man of vision, and thus the writers and artists and designers for all the movies, games, and comic books had more creative freedom. It sure doesn't help that no Legends material has continued with the sole exception of The Old Republic MMORPG. And that's ultimately what pisses off so many people like me. The soul that gave the Star Wars universe form is being sacrificed for corporate greed. It'd be fine if Legends was allowed to continue, but since it's not, you can't help but feel that the Star Wars universe is being helmed by ego-stroking corporate tyrants who only care about a quick buck. At least, that's how I feel.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Karha of Honor
Captain
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by Karha of Honor »

Yukaphile wrote:I was a bit disappointed that Chuck never brought up how Disney decanonized the Legends EU to make room for their new movies. Since Disney is a big company that cares only about making money, there is a certain spark of creativity that is being lost with their new contributions to the franchise, while Lucas was always a man of vision, and thus the writers and artists and designers for all the movies, games, and comic books had more creative freedom. It sure doesn't help that no Legends material has continued with the sole exception of The Old Republic MMORPG. And that's ultimately what pisses off so many people like me. The soul that gave the Star Wars universe form is being sacrificed for corporate greed. It'd be fine if Legends was allowed to continue, but since it's not, you can't help but feel that the Star Wars universe is being helmed by ego-stroking corporate tyrants who only care about a quick buck. At least, that's how I feel.
Plenty of companies would have looked at their video game brand and would have decided against murdering the whole EU.
Image
Draco Dracul
Captain
Posts: 1211
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:32 am

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by Draco Dracul »

Yukaphile wrote:I was a bit disappointed that Chuck never brought up how Disney decanonized the Legends EU to make room for their new movies. Since Disney is a big company that cares only about making money, there is a certain spark of creativity that is being lost with their new contributions to the franchise, while Lucas was always a man of vision, and thus the writers and artists and designers for all the movies, games, and comic books had more creative freedom. It sure doesn't help that no Legends material has continued with the sole exception of The Old Republic MMORPG. And that's ultimately what pisses off so many people like me. The soul that gave the Star Wars universe form is being sacrificed for corporate greed. It'd be fine if Legends was allowed to continue, but since it's not, you can't help but feel that the Star Wars universe is being helmed by ego-stroking corporate tyrants who only care about a quick buck. At least, that's how I feel.
Most likely it wasn't mentioned because Lucas had basically nothing to do with the EU, and this series is a look at George Lucas through the lens of Star Wars rather than a general look at Star Wars. Additionally, even if we had Lucas's original treatment, it would have almost certainly invalidated nearly the entirety of the EU anyway. I mean, beyond occasionally not giving popular characters the ax, Lucas basically ignored the EU material when actually making films.
Sir Will
Officer
Posts: 476
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:30 am

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by Sir Will »

RIP Star Wars.
User avatar
SuccubusYuri
Officer
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by SuccubusYuri »

Draco Dracul wrote: Most likely it wasn't mentioned because Lucas had basically nothing to do with the EU, and this series is a look at George Lucas through the lens of Star Wars rather than a general look at Star Wars. Additionally, even if we had Lucas's original treatment, it would have almost certainly invalidated nearly the entirety of the EU anyway. I mean, beyond occasionally not giving popular characters the ax, Lucas basically ignored the EU material when actually making films.
More directly, overall Disney's policy is exactly the same as Lucas' was: Take the good to throw a bone, adopt some framework if it isn't broken, and tread VERY cautiously as you take the best route to canonizing KOTOR xD I mean the latter, especially, is almost identical in how subtle hints in early seasons lead to a big final reveal (which, admittedly, Lucas changed at the last minute, opting that the cameo Sith would be changed from Revan to Bane).

Lucas adopted the EU's version of Palpatine rather faithfully in character, even if superficial details about his history changed dramatically. Disney did the same with Thrawn. Lucas adopted Ryloth, but changed its social structure to better fit his expectations for his stories. Disney adopted Malachor, but changed the nature of its catastrophe while still making it the iconic "graveyard world". Their approaches are nearly identical, and hardly even worth thinking about.
Archanubis
Officer
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:15 pm

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by Archanubis »

Draco Dracul wrote:
Yukaphile wrote:I was a bit disappointed that Chuck never brought up how Disney decanonized the Legends EU to make room for their new movies. Since Disney is a big company that cares only about making money, there is a certain spark of creativity that is being lost with their new contributions to the franchise, while Lucas was always a man of vision, and thus the writers and artists and designers for all the movies, games, and comic books had more creative freedom. It sure doesn't help that no Legends material has continued with the sole exception of The Old Republic MMORPG. And that's ultimately what pisses off so many people like me. The soul that gave the Star Wars universe form is being sacrificed for corporate greed. It'd be fine if Legends was allowed to continue, but since it's not, you can't help but feel that the Star Wars universe is being helmed by ego-stroking corporate tyrants who only care about a quick buck. At least, that's how I feel.
Most likely it wasn't mentioned because Lucas had basically nothing to do with the EU, and this series is a look at George Lucas through the lens of Star Wars rather than a general look at Star Wars. Additionally, even if we had Lucas's original treatment, it would have almost certainly invalidated nearly the entirety of the EU anyway. I mean, beyond occasionally not giving popular characters the ax, Lucas basically ignored the EU material when actually making films.
I believe he did have veto power on certain things regarding the EU. But mentioning the books, video games, etc, probably requires its own video.
User avatar
Winter
Captain
Posts: 2308
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by Winter »

Gotta say that this, along with issues I have with The Last Jedi, has given me a new appreciation for Lucas. I've always like the Prequels despite their flaws but like a lot of other fans I assumed, incorrectly, that they failed because Lucas was working with more resources and that he worked better while he was restrained. After seeing these videos I had to fight the urge to write Lucas a heartfelt apology seeing that he actually had fewer resources and time while working on the Prequels then he did for the Original Trilogy.

And in regards to The Last Jedi, that film made a number of mistakes that Lucas was able to avoid and the mistakes he did make are, in my opinion, more forgivable. Bits like Obi-Wan jumping out of a window to catch a droid I can forgive because even Jedi's do stupid things in the heat of the moment and it was clearly a excuse to just have a cool chase scene. The Last Jedi on the other hand, without going into spoilers, has characters doing things that are both really stupid and out of character in order to advance the plot and rules of the Star Wars lore, most notably in relation to something a ship does with light speed that doesn't fit what was stated in previous movies and The Force Awakens specifically, to again advance the plot.

But back to Lucas what I like most about his relation to the Disney Era is, just how supportive his been of the series. I know creators who refuse to even glace at series that are no longer under their control and say something rather nasty things about them. That's understandable but once again what I find most impressive about Lucas is that he is supportive and has even loved a lot of what the Disney Era has done. I mean I didn't like The Last Jedi but Lucas did. I though Rouge One was okay but Lucas thought it was great. George Lucas is now and always will be one of m all time favorite storytellers and with this series of videos that feeling has only gotten stronger. And I do hold out hope that we get to see what Lucas' original vision for the sequel trilogy and who knows, maybe it will not only blow Disney films out of the water but will even match the Original Trilogy and the Thrawn Trilogy. :)
griffeytrek
Officer
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:28 am

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by griffeytrek »

Yukaphile wrote:I was a bit disappointed that Chuck never brought up how Disney decanonized the Legends EU to make room for their new movies. Since Disney is a big company that cares only about making money, there is a certain spark of creativity that is being lost with their new contributions to the franchise, while Lucas was always a man of vision, and thus the writers and artists and designers for all the movies, games, and comic books had more creative freedom. It sure doesn't help that no Legends material has continued with the sole exception of The Old Republic MMORPG. And that's ultimately what pisses off so many people like me. The soul that gave the Star Wars universe form is being sacrificed for corporate greed. It'd be fine if Legends was allowed to continue, but since it's not, you can't help but feel that the Star Wars universe is being helmed by ego-stroking corporate tyrants who only care about a quick buck. At least, that's how I feel.
Because the EU was always a non issue and a non starter. It was dead the moment George decided to make the sequel trillogy. Just fans of it don't like to admit that. It had started to die before the Disney deal was even an idea. Remember the Karen Traver's meltdown over the vastly different and now cannon protrayal of her beloved Mandalorians in the Clone Wars series? No Disney involved there. The EU was always lesser cannon that could be erased at any time. And the issue was as soon as new movies hit, barring certain small good details which could be brought forward, it would have to be erased. There was too much of it. There was too small an audience familiar with it in comparison to the billions of people who watch Star Wars movies. You could not make the new movies contingent on information from the novels. This was pure common sense. Heck George Lucas has said he has never read the novels, for a variety of logical professional reasons.
RobbyB1982
Captain
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:38 pm

Re: The Hermit's Journey. To arms, prequel defenders, to arms!

Post by RobbyB1982 »

The EU had its audience, and there was good stuff in there... but for all that there were FORTY YEARS of comics and novels... (which contradicted themselves as well!) how much really came out of them that were widely appreciated?

Han and Leia's kids? Zahn's Thrawn trilogy? And as a result of that maybe Mara Jade?

8000 different stories about cleaning up remnant bits of the Empire? (WHich they eventually realized had gotten old which is when they introduced the Vong 20 years later.. which could have worked but was badly executed and for way too long.) Luke almost going to the dark side a bunch of times? The most interesting ideas carried forward in some iteration.

We got Thrawn in the new cartoon. We got Han and Leia's kid going Dark Side. We didn't get a wife for Luke, but since we're not following every second of his life for decades that matters less than it did.

For all that there were 40 years of material and people that loved them (I'm among them) there honestly wasn't *that* much truly worth preserving, that much that was widely accepted and acclaimed that everyone pointed to and went "THAT is exactly how it should be." Out of hundreds of novels and thousands of comics, mostly just the Thrawn trilogy. And really, 40 years is a long time.
They don't burn your copies of the old material or your memories of it, but it was time for a clean start. No long running franchise that has more than one creator can go that long without needing a clean restart occasionally. Look at Marvel and DC soft reboot themselves once a decade.

Everything started running into contradictions as far back as the prequel trilogy starting. Heck, event the first Clone Wars cartoon, made in 2003, that was awesome as heck... was already wiped out of canon once the CGI show started... in 2008!

At least KotoR is basically still intact because it goes so far back none of the new changes touch it anyway.
Post Reply