Babylon 5: TKO

[CareerKnight]

Apparently, taking time to slow down and develop the characters in a more focused way, without having to worry as much about an overarching plot, is dull, boring and pointless.

No, the execution is (B5 would do other character focused episodes with little to no impact on the overall plot but in a much more entertaining way).

[Deledrius]

I'm curious: has there ever been a "boxing episode" of a show that was engaging and relevant? VOY's Tsunkatse and BSG's Unfinished Business both come to mind along with B5's TKO as boring or even frustrating. Why do people keep making them? At best, it feels like a cheap, lazy writing trick to make inner conflict have an external manifestation in the most obvious and literal way possible. Or, in the case of TKO, just a waste of time entirely.

[Dînadan]

I'm curious: has there ever been a "boxing episode" of a show that was engaging and relevant? VOY's Tsunkatse and BSG's Unfinished Business both come to mind along with B5's TKO as boring or even frustrating. Why do people keep making them? At best, it feels like a cheap, lazy writing trick to make inner conflict have an external manifestation in the most obvious and literal way possible. Or, in the case of TKO, just a waste of time entirely.

Closest I can think of is the Simpsons episode where Homer became a boxer; that was fairly entertaining as I recall.

[G-Man]

I'm curious: has there ever been a "boxing episode" of a show that was engaging and relevant? VOY's Tsunkatse and BSG's Unfinished Business both come to mind along with B5's TKO as boring or even frustrating. Why do people keep making them? At best, it feels like a cheap, lazy writing trick to make inner conflict have an external manifestation in the most obvious and literal way possible. Or, in the case of TKO, just a waste of time entirely.

I remember a The Dead Zone: The Series episode involving boxing. I don't remember how relevant the episode was or how interesting, (other than having a few visions of a guy from the future who played a role in that season), but I remember listening to the commentary and it was the boxer from the episode discussing boxing licensing, etc., without really talking about the episode.

[wallander83]

Kingdom is a very entertaining series with lots of MMA-Fights. But Boxing and scfi dont mix.

[animalia]

I think it's at least a good comment for Babylon 5's writing that the worst episode is merely stupid and boring as opposed to morally abhorrent and character assassinating.

Also, Merry Christmas everyone

Say it again!

[cdrood]

What you have here is 2 B plots and no real A plot, and that's the problem. None of the Mutai stuff is ever mentioned again, so the "watch you back" line is literally the ONLY thing of relevance and that's a second of foreshadowing, nothing more. The slow build of season 1 meant there were just fewer arc related episodes, so we get stand alone ones that don't really fit anywhere. The Ivanova stuff was decent and served her character arc. She lost her family emotionally long before she lost them physically, so she's closed off and doesn't trust. We see later that every time she does open up, the door gets slammed back in her face. The Byron arc would have continued this.

[animalia]

I actually liked the "to be the best, you have to fight the best" line. it's just another way of saying "if you don't push your limits, you'll never truly grow"

[Asvarduil]

So, while TKO is probably the worst episode of B5...it's entertaining, at least, and has characters growing as a result of it. Ivanova is opening herself up to others; the Character of the Week is overcoming his past, which mirror's Garibaldi's own development.

Yes, the plot is stupidly written, but it's a lot better than, say...Threshold? A Night in Sickbay? If this is B5's worst episode...that says all that needs to be said about B5 as a series.

[RobbyB1982]

I'm curious: has there ever been a "boxing episode" of a show that was engaging and relevant? VOY's Tsunkatse and BSG's Unfinished Business both come to mind along with B5's TKO as boring or even frustrating. Why do people keep making them? At best, it feels like a cheap, lazy writing trick to make inner conflict have an external manifestation in the most obvious and literal way possible. Or, in the case of TKO, just a waste of time entirely.

The problem is, having an episode ABOUT boxing, rather than an episode WITH boxing.

Even the most famous boxing movie, Rocky, is barely about Boxing at all until the last 10 minutes, in a two hour movie. The entirety of the movie is a character piece. You could take that same film and replace boxing with a hit song or a chance to be on broadway, and most of the film wouldn't change much. And most sports movies aren't about the sport much at all. They'll have lousy games at the start to show how terrible the team is, then do a montage of wins, and then spend 15 minutes on the big final match... but those are mostly showcasing a dozen wacky characters that have three jokes each worth of a wacky joke while focusing on two or three leads going through some other problem entirely.

It's almost never about the actual game.

So TKO fails in that, it IS about the game, but without any character to care about to anchor that, then its just a big empty cliche being crammed into 20 minutes as a side plot. Had it been say, Garibaldi instead getting into the ring, with Franklin trying to talk him out of it, and had it started due to something other than just pride, it might have worked a little better.... though obviously it would then have needed to carry as an element of his character for the rest of the series.