Star Trek: Discovery - spoilery thoughts?

[Redem]

So did Hoshi found a dynasty?

Pretty sure Terran Empire still run on the rule of "Whoever kill the emperor get to rule"

[Mindworm]

Well, being in Ireland, and not on Netflix (partly shitty internet, partly no interest in 99.99% of Netflix) I've no legal access to the show.

But Chuck's review of the pilot and the second episode still doesn't shake the impression I get that the show runners didn't actually want to do Star Trek, but it ended up calling their show Star Trek was the only way to get it made.

Too many details are off, not just small stuff like holographic communictions (which do bug me) but major stuff like the Klingons and even Starfleet itself (I've not seen what the Discovery is yet, but I'm almost certain that's going to be severely not-Star Trek).

The show may end up being good Sci Fi but I can never see it being Trek.

[Eishtmo]

Michael actually facing consequences for her actions is new, too. Kirk stole a starship for a personal mission, and got a slap on the wrist.

To be fair, Kirk and company returned to Earth expecting to be fully court-martialed for what they did (the Kia of Prey was nick named the Bounty after all), and ended up saving the entire Federation on the way. And whales.

[Durandal_1707]

Yeah, but at the end of the day, they weren't.

[Madner Kami]

Yeah, but at the end of the day, they weren't.

Um, they were court-martialed. Kirk was demoted as a result and he never became an Admiral again, so that court martial really hurt his career.

[Durandal_1707]

I was responding to the "fully" part, by which I assumed to mean the sort of punishment you'd expect for a stunt like that—dishonorable discharge, prison time. Like what happened to Burnham. Not a minor demotion back to the rank you missed having anyway, and command of a shiny brand-new ship.

Kirk not becoming an admiral again can't really be considered as hurting his career when you consider that the whole movie arc was about Kirk not liking being an admiral, and wishing he hadn't accepted it.

[Paul Walker]

Back to Star Trek:

Can you remember the last time when watching a Star Trek series that people were trying to figure out the future of the show? Can you remember the last time that Starfleet Command was shown to be competent and the captain was in the wrong? It always seemed weird that people who were in Starfleet were able to be promoted and yet have no idea how problems were solved, but this time it seems that they know something is up with Lorca, and are trying to coax him back to (rightly) relieve him of command.

Discovery isn't perfect, but it is interesting, and it IS Star Trek.

Late reply I know but was away over the weekend

I think I can answer that though, yes. DS9 managed all of that years ago. DS9 actually managed to have competent Admiralty dealing with the threat of the Dominion. Sisko crossed the line chasing Eddington. If you want a show where the Captain was consistently in the wrong you have Enterprise though that's admittedly due to terrible writing and a screwed up moral compass.

The build-up to the Dominion war was a great story that had me hooked at the time as well. Having the Federation making the preemptive strike which started it all was a bold move.

Good points. Though realistically, if anything Starfleet waited too long before doing anything. By the time they sealed off the wormhole it was already blatently clear that diplomacy wasn't going to work.

In the most recent episode, I liked that they tried to show Burnham clinging to her humanity. With all the things she's having to do for her cover to try and get Discovery home, whenever she had the chance she held her humanity tight.

Discovery is in a land where no one else has morals. So they’re clinging to theirs more dearly when they can. Remember that Star Trek is meant to showcase the best of humanity. Discovery is a crew that’s being pushed right to the edge and they’re still hanging on in their. Having a hard time making the choices they need to survive. In some ways this is doing a combination of Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Battlestar Galactica. Surrounded by enemies, struggling to survive, they are working to stay undercover in an empire where a delay of an hour is grounds for the Empress charging across space to see why the delay happened.
Burnham has had to make a number of difficult decisions to stay undercover. And when she had the chance to allow Voq to die, she realised that she could use this as an advantage. A broken human heart, facing off against one of the people who (and I know she doesn't actually know this bit) ATE her captain, and she insists that he can't die by her hand - he has to go through the process and stand trial. Because that's how the Federation handles crimes.
This will stop being Star Trek when the decisions to keep her cover can be made easily.

[Fixer]

In the most recent episode, I liked that they tried to show Burnham clinging to her humanity. With all the things she's having to do for her cover to try and get Discovery home, whenever she had the chance she held her humanity tight.

I actually like the Discovery mirror universe so far. Its over the top villainy and cheesy fashion gets a thumbs up.

Trouble with Michael is that they appeared to do a character reboot with her in the Mudd episode where prior to that point she had apparently been suppressing her emotions Vulcan style even though she had been making several very emotional actions. Also the focus on how things affect her personally rather than the greater context for the crew or the Federation as a whole.

This is one of the greater weaknesses of the show. With previous series you had quite a large culturally diverse crew where you knew every key player's role. In Discovery we only focus on one individual and we're currently left with five crew which that have any actual character. Michael, Lorca, Saru, Tilly, Stamets.

Everyone outside of that so far is a glorified Redshirt who I can only remember from their three primary surface traits. Even gay black doctor and asshole security woman are dead. When we travel to the mirror universe, and most of the primary cast's doubles aren't present, it only leaves Michael to interact with mirror Saru, mirror died in pilot guy and mirror scarred redhead lady. It doesn't leave you to see much contrast.

Georgiou is rocking that evil Empress look though.

[Karha of Honor]

Okay. so why did she lie about Mirror Saru?

[Fixer]

A white lie for his benefit. If Saru's species is on the verge of extinction and he's looking for any hope that there may be more of his kind in this alternate reality, the inconsiderate response would be: Yes, and they're a slave race, in this universe you wash my feet.

Though Saru's species being few in number is something that has only just come up on show, Memory Alpha has a link saying they were driven underground by the predators on his world and Saru was rescued by starfleet.