Logan

[Steve]

So, who's seen the new X-Men franchise movie?

I saw it yesterday with my brother and I thought it was one of the strongest films they've done yet, if very bittersweet. Dafne Keen is definitely an actress to keep an eye on given her ability to do meaningful scenes with talent like Sir Patrick and Hugh Jackman, and both of them applied their A-game to what is meant to be their final appearances as these iconic X-Men characters.

[Rocketboy1313]

To me it is the best X-Men movie. It is also as violent and vulgar as "Starship Troopers" which I appreciated as a change of pace.

If I had to complain about something, it was a little long, but that might just be a side effect of how depressing it is. And I think there are two bad guys who should have switched places in regards to which heroes murder them.

Overall I nearly cried twice, so there is that.

[Paul Walker]

I thought it was really good.

It certainly is the strongest of the stand-alone Wolverine movies. Both X2 and Days of Future Past are very strong competitors. Though I don't think I've ever seen Patrick Stewart having so much fun!

I've now started watching the X-Men films in an attempt at a semi-chronological order.
First Class
X-Men
X2
Days of Future Past
Apocalypse

The reason I mention this is that I wish they'd given some idea of where the events in Logan diverge from what we know happened in the 'Prime' and 'First Class' timelines. If anyone has thought of something which may shed some light on it, please tell me. As it is Logan (while awesome) will be being sidelined on any future X-Men marathons.

I also nearly cried once. I also really appreciated the sound design. If you've seen the film, you'll likely know to what I'm referring.

[hammerofglass]

I also liked it. It's probably my favorite x-men movie, but I was never really a big fan of them.

[Nessus]

I wish they'd given some idea of where the events in Logan diverge from what we know happened in the 'Prime' and 'First Class' timelines. If anyone has thought of something which may shed some light on it, please tell me.

"First Class" belongs to both timelines, as the timeline split takes place after the events of "First Class" in-universe. As I understand it, there are currently only two timelines. Neither is "prime", as the second one has overwritten and superseded the first, rather branching from it.

So the original timeline is (in-universe chronological order, barring flashback scenes): First Class -> W:O* -> X1 -> X2 -> X3 -> TW -> the dark future segments of DoFP.

The timeline begins to change at the point Wolverine wakes up in the past in DoFP (which is after the events of FC). Everything from there forward (in universe) is the revised timeline. So the revised timeline is: W:O (first half or whatever) -> FC -> DoFP -> X:A -> Deadpool -> Deadpool 2** -> Logan***.

Details in the revised timeline imply that the events of X1, 2, and 3, as well as TW and the last leg of W:O did not happen, or happened very differently. In the revised timeline, Cyclops and Jean Grey are both alive and well. Nightcrawler joins the X-men over a decade earlier. Wade Wilson isn't a part of the Weapon X program, and so survives to become Deadpool Later. Wolverine is recruited by Xavier much sooner after Weapon X, resulting in him getting better help and being more well adjusted during the period where X1/2/3 would have taken place.

*W:O is a special case, as it begins a century before FC, and ends around the time X:A takes place (though X:A takes place in the revised timeline): it brackets the events of FC, but ends before before X1 begins.

** Not out yet, but it looks to be taking place not long after the first one.

***I haven't seen Logan yet, but as I understand it, it is in the revised timeline several decades after the "happy future" seen in DoFP, not in a third timeline.

[Karha of Honor]

I wish they'd given some idea of where the events in Logan diverge from what we know happened in the 'Prime' and 'First Class' timelines. If anyone has thought of something which may shed some light on it, please tell me.

"First Class" belongs to both timelines, as the timeline split takes place after the events of "First Class" in-universe. As I understand it, there are currently only two timelines. Neither is "prime", as the second one has overwritten and superseded the first, rather branching from it.

So the original timeline is (in-universe chronological order, barring flashback scenes): First Class -> W:O* -> X1 -> X2 -> X3 -> TW -> the dark future segments of DoFP.

The timeline begins to change at the point Wolverine wakes up in the past in DoFP (which is after the events of FC). Everything from there forward (in universe) is the revised timeline. So the revised timeline is: W:O (first half or whatever) -> FC -> DoFP -> X:A -> Deadpool -> Deadpool 2** -> Logan***.

Details in the revised timeline imply that the events of X1, 2, and 3, as well as TW and the last leg of W:O did not happen, or happened very differently. In the revised timeline, Cyclops and Jean Grey are both alive and well. Nightcrawler joins the X-men over a decade earlier. Wade Wilson isn't a part of the Weapon X program, and so survives to become Deadpool Later. Wolverine is recruited by Xavier much sooner after Weapon X, resulting in him getting better help and being more well adjusted during the period where X1/2/3 would have taken place.

*W:O is a special case, as it begins a century before FC, and ends around the time X:A takes place (though X:A takes place in the revised timeline): it brackets the events of FC, but ends before before X1 begins.

** Not out yet, but it looks to be taking place not long after the first one.

***I haven't seen Logan yet, but as I understand it, it is in the revised timeline several decades after the "happy future" seen in DoFP, not in a third timeline.

Got a source?

[Nessus]

For which part? Most of that is explicit in the movies themselves. The only bit I'm not sure of is "Logan" being in the revised timeline.

I don't have source for that, as it's only an aggregate impression on my part from the stuff I've read/seen. However I do think that if it was in a different timeline, that would be clearer and well cited in reviews and especially fan discussions. Right now literally the only mention I've yet seen of it being in a third timeline is Paul Walker's post above, which he admits to being unclear on himself. Every other review and discussion I've seen has taken it for granted that it's in the revised timeline, and this is not the last X-Men movie, just the last one with Wolverine.

Both "eras" (Stewart and McAvoy) are kind of at their limit now. The Stewart & co cast is aging out of the roles, and the McAvoy cast has progressed as far as it can without acknowledging how McAvoy and Fassbennder can turn into Stewart and McKellen in just 10 years (X:A was already REALLY pushing this). Fox is allegedly already wanting to make more movies with X-23, which would imply an "X-Men: the next Generation" sort of situation. As bleak as the future depicted in "Logan" is for mutants, it's still something that can swing back with a new generation (I guess that would make "Logan" "X-Men: Generations", Ha!). The comics have already had a "next gen" lineup/team for like 20 years or so now (which X-23 is a part of), so this would be a natural progression.

[Rocketboy1313]

Guys, it is pretty obvious that Fox does not handle the franchise with the level of depth and care that would make your observations of canon meaningful. It is frequently just a lot of junk that they shovel onto the screen to sell action figures and hold on to the movie rights because they are pretty popular.

"Logan" specifically points out that continuity is not a central conceit.
"It's all bullshit" he says throwing comic books on the bed.

Some variation of the movies' events took place, but if you get hung up on details you are just not going to enjoy "Logan" as much.

Just shrug, accept that the movie is really more about Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman leaving the franchise, and expect all of this stuff to be forgotten in the context of the stories (it may not be, but expect it to be mist in the daylight). Or just pretend it is Earth-3.

[Steve]

Apparently the Director of Logan, James Mangold, has outright stated that Logan is further along the "good future" of DOFP. I fully expect that this will eventually be denied by Fox if they feel it impacts future X-Men movies too much.

I wouldn't be too hung up about McAvoy and Fassbinder not resembling Stewart and McKellan, the actor change was always going to be necessary eventually.

And yeah, I bet Fox is going to keep making X-franchise films just to keep the rights intact, at least until the movies are clearly losing money and the rights aren't as valuable (from what I hear, Marvel is deliberately getting rid of characters and breaking up teams they don't have the movie rights to?).

[Karha of Honor]

Apparently the Director of Logan, James Mangold, has outright stated that Logan is further along the "good future" of DOFP. I fully expect that this will eventually be denied by Fox if they feel it impacts future X-Men movies too much.

I wouldn't be too hung up about McAvoy and Fassbinder not resembling Stewart and McKellan, the actor change was always going to be necessary eventually.

And yeah, I bet Fox is going to keep making X-franchise films just to keep the rights intact, at least until the movies are clearly losing money and the rights aren't as valuable (from what I hear, Marvel is deliberately getting rid of characters and breaking up teams they don't have the movie rights to?).

There are plenty of ways around it even if what he said is canon. The US is not the only country in the world. I think they should just release Avoy and Fass. Start from scratch with new characters. The general movie audience is not as conservative as the Big 2 fans.