Star Trek (Dis): Context Is for Kings

[Admiral X]

Let's look at these poor Star Wars fans forced to abuse Kelly Marie Tran.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/kell ... 1621b6b2bb

Which has nothing to do with either Fixer or myself.

[Admiral X]

The Sporp Drive is something that makes me wonder rather a lot how someone came up with that idea in the first place.

FTL engine requiring the use of a psychoactive/mutagenic drug, to allow the navigator to see across time and space. Gee, I wonder where they might have possibly gotten that idea.



Am I seriously the only one who's read Dune? Forum, I am disappoint.

I've read the first three books, actually. I just don't watch STD.

I have to say, though, the clips of the ship jumping about look pretty damn silly.

[RobbyB1982]

In Dune the Spice was basically a magical maguffin.. but it was also a key cornerstone that the entire universe and franchise and the entire conflict was completely built around. It was nonsense pseudo-science, but it was THE nonsense pseudo-science. It also wasn't responsible for the actual space travel, just the way to navigate it. (The spice also let you see the future and get jedi-style powers)

In Trek it's... the first time its ever come up and it sort of borders on the same problems Threshold had of a magic material suddenly letting them break all the rules.

There's plenty of reasons not to make a VOY/DS9 sequel.

* Klingons
* Spock
* No continuity lockout
* Mirror Universe with EVILLLLL Terrans

Mind you, they've misused the Klingons a great deal.

Set things 50 or 100 years later and continuity lockout isn't any issue at all, and you could have done the exact same thing with the Klingons they're doing now. (Or a brand new race filling the same role.) And even were Nimoy still alive they'd never actually use Spock again anyway, and they're not about to grab Quinton to do a cameo.

Mirror universe in particular need never come up again. It's only come up, what, 5 times in 700 episodes? Heck, Chuck only got to the second example of it last week after 10 years.

[CharlesPhipps]

The Dune example is completely wrong.

The Spore Drive in Discovery uses spores to travel the universe.

The Spice allows psychic visions of the future to navigate it while conventional technology is used to create the hyperspace folds.

Set things 50 or 100 years later and continuity lockout isn't any issue at all, and you could have done the exact same thing with the Klingons they're doing now. (Or a brand new race filling the same role.) And even were Nimoy still alive they'd never actually use Spock again anyway, and they're not about to grab Quinton to do a cameo.

Mirror universe in particular need never come up again. It's only come up, what, 5 times in 700 episodes? Heck, Chuck only got to the second example of it last week after 10 years.

Well in the case of the Mirror Universe, it is something they did for half a season. The complaint becomes not about what they are doing but what they have clearly planned and want to do.

[Fixer]

Let's look at these poor Star Wars fans forced to abuse Kelly Marie Tran.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/kell ... 1621b6b2bb

Which has nothing to do with either Fixer or myself.

I thought from the subject title that there might have been something actually serious there but apparently one troll edit of a wiki that is quickly deleted and one fat joke from some random guy I've never heard of is all it takes to shut down all discussion and label all Star Wars fans as racists.

Though all three comments on that page also talk about how her character sucked in the movie.

More importantly though I think it's important to say why this is such a bad tactic.

It's guilt by association and the weak man fallacy in practise. An ad-hominem which attacks the character of an individual or group by linking it with the worst and unrepresentative part of it. Or one that may not even in fact be even loosely associated with it.

To give an example, Ajit Pai received a huge amount of death threats and racist abuse. By association anyone that was opposed to the repeal of net neutrality (which I expect is everyone in this forum now) is responsible for racist statements and threats of violence.

[Fixer]

The Dune example is completely wrong.

The Spore Drive in Discovery uses spores to travel the universe.

The Spice allows psychic visions of the future to navigate it while conventional technology is used to create the hyperspace folds.

Thematically it's different as well. In Dune it was a vital resource that was to be fought over and was essential for all space travel. The Fremen controlled it by understanding how it was possible to destroy it thus ensuring their monopoly and dominance over the galaxy.

In Discovery, the mushynet is apparently a cross-dimensional power that connects all living things. Apparently has a will of its own, brings forth spirits of the dead and its corruption could kill everything, everywhere, somehow. Also it's well known since the spores clogged up the prison transport.

It's closer to the force and science fantasy space magic.

[CharlesPhipps]

Hell, the Force is more scientific.

You could claim it's a entangled energy field.

You can't entangle spores.

[Fixer]

Spoiler:
Stammets with his expanded consciousness after his gene therapy and being inside a chamber filled with sparkly things does seem like one hell of a navigator rip off though.

[Archanubis]

There's plenty of reasons not to make a VOY/DS9 sequel.

* Klingons
* Spock
* No continuity lockout
* Mirror Universe with EVILLLLL Terrans

Mind you, they've misused the Klingons a great deal.

Personally, I've always thought the Romulans were misused more, if only because Trek writers use them so little (TNG so far seems to be the only series to feature them as regular antagonists - if only because the Ferengi proved to be such flops). Hell, outside of a brief mention of Romulus in "Context Is for Kings," the Romulans haven't been mentioned at all in this series. Granted, if this is supposed to be the "Prime" universe, the Romulans should be rather insular at this point, but still, their two biggest rivals at war? You can't expect them to stay completely quiet in the face of that opportunity.

[Asvarduil]

Granted, if this is supposed to be the "Prime" universe, the Romulans should be rather insular at this point, but still, their two biggest rivals at war? You can't expect them to stay completely quiet in the face of that opportunity.

Oh, yes you can. If the Romulans let the Klingons and Federation destroy each other, they can just fly in and mop up the pieces. The Tal Shiar almost certainly has operatives in both of their adversaries' respective space forces, and will know when the right time to strike is.

Now, if you want to explore multiverses...what about a "Mirror" universe where Romulans are the ones who are winning, the Vulcans have reunified with them, and the other Federation races and the Klingons have had to band together to fight the overwhelming Romulan war machine?