Star Trek (Dis): Context Is for Kings

[Archanubis]

Granted, if this is supposed to be the "Prime" universe, the Romulans should be rather insular at this point, but still, their two biggest rivals at war? You can't expect them to stay completely quiet in the face of that opportunity.

Oh, yes you can. If the Romulans let the Klingons and Federation destroy each other, they can just fly in and mop up the pieces. The Tal Shiar almost certainly has operatives in both of their adversaries' respective space forces, and will know when the right time to strike is.

That's kind of what I meant: have the Romulans working behind the scenes to foster hostilities between Qo'noS and Earth, then have them attack when at their weakest.

Hell, having the Romulans controlling large swaths of Klingon and Federation territory would have been a better twist than the "Yesterday's Enterprise's Klingons are the verge of victory" twist we had in the most recent episode.

[Linkara]

Well, like I said, I wouldn't feel the need to say it if history hadn't taught me it needed saying. If even a fellow ChannelAwesome contributor will say in public that sexism is why guys don't like Voyager and then single me out specifically, then the memo clearly isn't getting out there.

Hope this is referring to someone else and not me, since I know why you hate Voyager (which is subsequently why *I* also hate Voyager). XD

Wait, are the same Linkara who does those youtube videos about Power Rangers?

No, I'm the Linkara from Earth-2. It's the exact same as your earth, but with more lasers.

The thing about "flaunting" so-called SJW things, to me that feels like the same argument people make of "Ugh, I don't hate gay people, but do they have to flaunt it in public so much?" when referring to, say, couples holding hands or making out - something they won't equally complain about heterosexual couples doing. Sometimes you HAVE to get the info out there because it might attract an audience that otherwise wouldn't necessarily care about it. Star Trek makes huge strides in representation, but still will screw up royally on so much and needs to work on being better, because bigotry is not just people wearing Klan outfits - it's ingrained attitudes and opinions because of stereotypes and assumptions and unintended bits where they're uncomfortable with something that seems different to them. They may not be screaming obscenities, but the uncomfortable truth is we DO have unconscious prejudices and even the most progressive shows can screw that up or, at least, seem dated nowadays because what seemed progressive a long time ago is now just an example of dated writing. It's only with the benefit of hindsight that we realize something was ahead of its time or that it was much more behind in its thinking than it thought.

[GandALF]

The thing about "flaunting" so-called SJW things, to me that feels like the same argument people make of "Ugh, I don't hate gay people, but do they have to flaunt it in public so much?" when referring to, say, couples holding hands or making out - something they won't equally complain about heterosexual couples doing. Sometimes you HAVE to get the info out there because it might attract an audience that otherwise wouldn't necessarily care about it. Star Trek makes huge strides in representation, but still will screw up royally on so much and needs to work on being better, because bigotry is not just people wearing Klan outfits - it's ingrained attitudes and opinions because of stereotypes and assumptions and unintended bits where they're uncomfortable with something that seems different to them. They may not be screaming obscenities, but the uncomfortable truth is we DO have unconscious prejudices and even the most progressive shows can screw that up or, at least, seem dated nowadays because what seemed progressive a long time ago is now just an example of dated writing. It's only with the benefit of hindsight that we realize something was ahead of its time or that it was much more behind in its thinking than it thought.

It's not unreasonable to think that in the same way it was a bad move for a cash cow franchise to lecture it's audience on the evils of capitalism that it might also be a bad move for that same franchise that rambles on about how it's god's plan that the lesser races die out to lecture it's audience on "unconscious prejudices"

[SFDebris]

Well, like I said, I wouldn't feel the need to say it if history hadn't taught me it needed saying. If even a fellow ChannelAwesome contributor will say in public that sexism is why guys don't like Voyager and then single me out specifically, then the memo clearly isn't getting out there.

Hope this is referring to someone else and not me, since I know why you hate Voyager (which is subsequently why *I* also hate Voyager). XD

God, no! Even if you and I had dirty laundry (which we don't) I would never air it in public!

It's all ironic for me, because my brain is wired up to handle concepts better than labels. To my mind, ideas are simple to comprehend and remember and pick apart or entwine together, whereas labels for people and things are purely arbitrary things. Like with Shakespeare, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet," is easy to remember because that concept is easy to remember, it don't mean a damn what you call things, it's what they are that matters far more, what you call it is just a matter of convenience... which is why it's easy to remember the quote but not which character who said it! XD So for me, it's rarely about the superficial "who is doing what" but rather "what are they doing." So "This person is awful" is interpreted as "you just say that because they're [X]" and in my mind, "but that's just an external hardware issue."

[unknownsample]

I thought from the subject title that there might have been something actually serious there but apparently one troll edit of a wiki that is quickly deleted and one fat joke from some random guy I've never heard of is all it takes to shut down all discussion and label all Star Wars fans as racists.

1. At no point have I said all Star Wars fans are racist

2. This was in response to you ignoring the behaviour of Ghostbusters fans and trying to paint the culture war as the fault of the actors, directors, studio, media.

[CharlesPhipps]

Personally, I've always thought the Romulans were misused more, if only because Trek writers use them so little (TNG so far seems to be the only series to feature them as regular antagonists - if only because the Ferengi proved to be such flops). Hell, outside of a brief mention of Romulus in "Context Is for Kings," the Romulans haven't been mentioned at all in this series. Granted, if this is supposed to be the "Prime" universe, the Romulans should be rather insular at this point, but still, their two biggest rivals at war? You can't expect them to stay completely quiet in the face of that opportunity.

The big issue is we haven't had Captain Kirk discover Romulans and Vulcans are the same race yet.

[Winter]

Looking at this bit of the forum as the subject of SJW comes up it reminds me of something Chuck said on an unrelated matter. "I want to talk about Robots and Space Ships What The Hell Happened To ME?!?!"

[CharlesPhipps]

Politics, gender, representation, and so on are all important for Star Trek.

[Winter]

Politics, gender, representation, and so on are all important for Star Trek.

Yes, but at the same time I want to be able to comment on something that I don't like without someone calling me a Femanazi or a Meninist just because I don't like key characters. This forum is the best I've been to as it's just talking about the annoyance of the small minority who hate something for [X] while everyone here just wants to talk about a shows plot and characters. I personally like Michael for being a very well written character and her redemption arc, though I do wish the rest of the cast could get more attention, and we're less jerks.

I know that this whole thing will pass and sense as you pointed out, politics, gender, representation, and so on are have always been important in Trek I that gives it an advantage as that is part of the series DNA. And at least a lot of fans have been praising the mirror universe story, which I need to watch at some point.

I think my biggest gripe with Dis is that I really think the series should have been set after Voyager and DS9 as the tech and design feels more like a sequel than a prequel. I mean say what you will about the Star Wars Prequels but there really wasn't anything there that was more advance than the original trilogy it was just, prettier. But with Dis you have holographic communicators that weren't created until DS9, which is something the show itself drew attention to. The tech that can allow the Discovery to fly around the galaxy in a seconds which makes Warp look like a kid riding a tricycle and the Klingon's looking like they do in TNG when Enterprise and DS9 made a big deal out of them having smooth foreheads at the time of TOS, (also why are they all bald, the Klingon's can and do have hair).

I really think that this should have either been set after the events of DS9 or been set in the Kelvin Universe which would have solve all these issues or at least have been less noticeable.

[Asvarduil]

Politics, gender, representation, and so on are all important for Star Trek.

I personally like Michael for being a very well written character and her redemption arc, though I do wish the rest of the cast could get more attention, and we're less jerks.

I agree. I think that Tilly having some manner of spectrum disorder is less important than her growing and discovering ways to get around it...

Spoiler
She did a fair impression of Mirror "Captain Killy", even if the things she had to say made her sick afterwards...but she wasn't quite the same after it. She wasn't the bumbling, spazzed-out mess she was back in Context. She's more confident, more assertive, and is more comfortable in her own skin. She got to voice things she wouldn't've before...and knew that the rest of Discovery was supporting her, ready to catch her if she fell. For a moment, she forgot what it was to be all spazzy, and it's something that I think is sticking with her. In short? Character growth!

I feel like - based on how the episodes are going - that maybe the writing staff is getting to flex their muscles with the other characters a bit, and we might get some payoff in the near future, if not throughout the series. It'd be nice to see, for instance, a Saru who grows to be every bit as awesome as Kirk (despite being a cow), or the helmswoman with the cybernetics become a total badass, possiblly with a hot significant other, or even some Klingon characters see that humanity and the Klingons really are kindred spirits, more alike than different, and worth fighting alongside.

In short? I think what Discovery is doing right isn't at all political - it's about hope for a better world, a world where we don't need to shoot each other in the face to earn respect. I think tamping down on the hot-button issues might be a good idea...but, as TV Tropes reminds us, some anvils need to be dropped.