B5: And The Sky Full of Stars

[YAGWG]

So, looks like I get a chance to start the thread as I can't find one for Chuck's latest review.

My own experience with B5 Season 1 is that I find all of the episodes watchable to varying degrees, some are better than others, and it's probably easier with having them on DVD so I can go back to the series whenever I want.

I think Michael O'Hare always played a very subdued Sinclair who could sound world weary at times, but I always got the sense that the "hole in his mind" for those 24 hours always troubled him as he didn't know what actually happened - are the people like Knight 1 & Knight 2 who doubt him right or are the people who know him and believe he did nothing wrong right or is it somewhere inbetween.

On a side note, I noticed that there's a fairly decent cross over between B5 and MacGyver - Christopher Neame (Knight 2/British blonde chin) was a baddie on an episode or two of that as well, Peter Jurassik (Londo) made an appearance and Mike Vejar was a director on many episodes of both series. I'm sure there are more I've forgotten at the moment.

[Linkara]

Got to disagree about this being a Fine or that Knight 2 was over the top. I'd say it's a "Must See" since while "The Gathering" got things started with the hole in Sinclair's mind thing, it wasn't REALLY followed-up or mentioned until now and it gets Sinclair started on his plot for the entire season. It also starts setting up things for Delenn and, as we saw with that blink-and-you'll-miss-it newspaper thing, shows the rumblings of things down the road for earth.

Knight 2 for me was exactly the right level of theatrical in his performance and found it quite compelling and grabbed my attention. Personally, I absolutely LOVE his introduction to Sinclair and it's the first thing I think of when I remember the episode.

[DanteC]

Did they ever explain 1) who Knight 1 and 2 work for? Any particular faction? and 2) did they explain why they didn't just hire a telepath to poke around in Sinclairs head? Especially if they think that some kind of memory tampering has happened? OK, they're not fans of aliens and getting a rogue human telepath would be problematic (psi-core have scruples, OK, they're meant to have scruples), but it'd probably be easier to pull off.

[Archanubis]

Did they ever explain 1) who Knight 1 and 2 work for? Any particular faction? and 2) did they explain why they didn't just hire a telepath to poke around in Sinclairs head? Especially if they think that some kind of memory tampering has happened? OK, they're not fans of aliens and getting a rogue human telepath would be problematic (psi-core have scruples, OK, they're meant to have scruples), but it'd probably be easier to pull off.

I think its one of those threads JMS had to eventually drop as the series went on, especially once Michael O'Hare left the show to deal with his schizophrenia.

[Darth Wedgius]

I wish Sinclair had figured out that it wasn't real, rather than having that handed to him (and to the audience). A bit more mystery might have helped the audience get through some of the weaker bits of acting.

[Mickey_Rat15]

Rewatching this episode make the ending a bit weird. The older Minbari's instruction to Delenn to kill Sinclair if he remembers directly contradicts why the Minbari surrendered and why they they let Sinclair live at the Battle of the Line.

There is an interesting question in Franklin's and Delenn's exchange given that this point we don't know exactly how responsible Delenn was for the Minbari's attempted genocide of humanity. How far can you morally go in a conflict when the other side means not your kind's subjugation but their extermination? Did Franklin avoid being complicit in building a horrific terror weapon, or the means of saving his species? Are those things even mutually exclusive?

The newspaper article on the Psi Corps endorsing Clark for the Vice Presidency. Why would they tip their hand for that? This was an American based show. The US Vice President has virtually no inherent authority until he has all of it when the President goes toes up. Most viewers would probably assume the same of EarthGov. So why publically endorse Clark without endorsing anyone else?

[SuccubusYuri]

Yeah I'm gonna call this episode one of the stronger pieces of evidence about the "original" plan for B5, splitting the story into two and all that. "If he remembers, kiill him!" "...Kill...Valen?" "Of course! Can't kill a Minbari if he isn't a Minbari yet!" "...Not even remotely my first problem with your plan."

It's probably the most glaring hole that jumps out to me, which I suppose makes sense? Since O'Hare having to jump ship is probably the biggest wrench that the show ever had.

[Durandal_1707]

What was the original answer to this mystery going to be? Did that ever get leaked?

[name_here]

The newspaper article on the Psi Corps endorsing Clark for the Vice Presidency. Why would they tip their hand for that? This was an American based show. The US Vice President has virtually no inherent authority until he has all of it when the President goes toes up. Most viewers would probably assume the same of EarthGov. So why publically endorse Clark without endorsing anyone else?

Presumably it's a sign that Psi Corps planned on Clark getting a promotion in short order, so they took a risk to make sure he would be the Vice President. Safer than endorsing the President directly, since they're not actually supposed to be endorsing anyone at all.

[RobbyB1982]

What was the original answer to this mystery going to be? Did that ever get leaked?

There is a synopsis floating the internet of where JMS' thought process was while developing season 1, but its different enough from what we got a lot of things probably would have changed anyway as the series moved along, regardless of if Ohare stayed on. (Though some things like Garibaldi becoming a drunk in season 4 were already in place.)

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/synopsi ... ers.53739/

As for Sincalir specifically, the secret behind Sinclair & the Battle of the Line is not that he becomes Valen (Valen is never mentioned in this outline... and he actually isn't mentioned until really late in season 1), but that he is the person who has been prophesied to save the Minbari from dying off. In order to fulfill the prophesy, Delenn must transform to become human and mate with Sinclair. Their son will be some kind of chosen one who will save the Minbari race from extinction(???). Some of the Minbari (warrior caste?) interpret prophesy differently, and think that Sinclair will actually lead the Minbari to doom.

The Minbari warrior caste overthrows the Grey Council, and orders the resumption of hostilities with Earth. They also want Sinclair and Delenn dead. The series ends with the Minbari attacking B5 and destroying it. Sinclair & Delenn escape with their newborn baby. Everyone in the galaxy is after them for one reason or another....including Earth, which has been given info which makes them believe Sinclair is a traitor.

It then leads into Babylon Prime.

Where they still go back in time to steal B4... but to take it to the future to continue the fight instead, rather than the past. The time traveling causes Sinclair, Delenn, and their baby to age rapidly. David grows all the way to adulthood within a few years.

B Prime and the Army of Light defeat the Shadows (but there's nothing about the Shadows leaving the galaxy). No mention of what happens to the Vorlons. Earth defeats the Minbari, and Sinclair's name is cleared. Delenn leaves Sinclair, in order to return to the Grey Council. David becomes the leader of a new interstellar alliance. Final scene is Sinclair, retired, alone on an otherwise uninhabited world....fishing.



(Personally I always assumed the original ending had the series actually taking decades to get to a naturally older Sinclair, but it seems like the accelerated aging was always part of the plan.)