Star Trek: Discovery - spoilery thoughts?

[Admiral X]

How so?

[GandALF]

How so?

Well the two big complaints I keep seeing are that it's too dark and too different and yet the video has the Enterprise writers talking about they chafed under the old episodic format and how they wanted to use the prequel setting to have grittier themes but they weren't allowed to for two seasons. So it seems like Discovery has learned from Enterprise's mistakes.

[Asvarduil]

How so?

Well the two big complaints I keep seeing are that it's too dark and too different and yet the video has the Enterprise writers talking about they chafed under the old episodic format and how they wanted to use the prequel setting to have grittier themes but they weren't allowed to for two seasons. So it seems like Discovery has learned from Enterprise's mistakes.

Based on my watching, this is accurate.

It also seems like Discovery has a much better focus in its writing. At one point in that video, Braga mentions that he was divided between lots of tasks, and often wound up focusing on rewrites (thus limiting his attention to detail...something Chuck has complained about with good reason.) It sounds like the Discovery team has solved that problem somewhat, too. Certainly they've done a better job of threading it all together much more seamlessly, and the quality of episodes has only improved from the start of the season.

[Darth Wedgius]

A mysterious thing that ties all life together, someone can become one with it, and it can grant mysterious powers? Am I too late to the party for a "Use the Fungus, Mike" joke?

[Asvarduil]

A mysterious thing that ties all life together, someone can become one with it, and it can grant mysterious powers? Am I too late to the party for a "Use the Fungus, Mike" joke?

Trust the fungus.

Name that movie!

[J!!]

That would clearly be this unparalleled masterpiece

Personally though, I prefer "The spoors must flow"

[cilantro]

This video on Enterprise is interesting in light of the criticisms directed at Discovery

youtu.be/hYGGXRNvR5Q

I actually enjoyed watching that video a lot. Thanks.

[Admiral X]

Except that not being allowed to be "dark and gritty" isn't what made ENT bad, and being "dark and gritty" isn't making STD good.

[Karha of Honor]

Except that not being allowed to be "dark and gritty" isn't what made ENT bad, and being "dark and gritty" isn't making STD good.

Is it darker than DS 9?

[Asvarduil]

Except that not being allowed to be "dark and gritty" isn't what made ENT bad, and being "dark and gritty" isn't making STD good.

I think neither the presence of grit nor of darkness is the problem in either ENT or DISCO's (and certainly not DS9's) case. I think the problem is a common problem in Trek - writing decisions are made that are at best questionable.

I think that, perhaps especially, in a "utopian" work like Star Trek, you can have a darker and grittier work that is quality and winds up supporting the utopian themes in the end. Indeed, to write drama is to write characters who enter a conflict, and overcome it. I would say that - to a certain extent - if you want to write good anything, you have to have some grit and/or darkness. The heroes have to overcome it, somehow.

When you do what DISCO did and discard a very relevant plotline - Ash/Voq's "PTSD" for instance - it damages the writing. Addressing PTSD, a modern topic, is a good idea, and is relatable. It doesn't matter if it's an Andorian, Human, or Klingon suffering from it - PTSD is a serious condition that ruins people's lives in ways that you can literally walk down a street and see. When the DISCO writers decided to throw that out in favor of "AshVoq was really a prototype Klingon manchurian agent", it cheapens the work, because it destroys that point of reference. The work becomes harder to relate too.

There are other problems, too, that I could go into (as someone who's actually enjoying this series), but my point is already made - grit and/or darkness isn't the problem with these series. I don't think those who are complaining about the series from that perspective are being intellectually honest with themselves or others.