Star Trek (Dis): The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

[Deledrius]

I really have no idea how Saru's "Bovine-sense" works.
Michael being near him sets it off because she's a potential threat to him but the tardigrade isn't?
Does that mean he doesn't even need to antagonize Michael for her to maul him?
Or does that mean he needs to be aware of the threat for it to start tingling? (Which makes Michael's test pointless)

It works like the Spider Sense.

Danger is near!

How does that work scientifically?

STAR TREK BIOLOGY.

It doesn't. It's pseudoscience written by people with a failure in basic logic and no understanding whatsoever of what evolution means or how it works. I mean, I guess that puts it in company with The Chase, but at least that was trying to tell a compelling story with it. Discovery just wants to convey a general sense of plot-driven foreboding whenever they feel like it so they don't have to actually make a situation tense. That's the one purpose, and one purpose alone, that it was dramatically determined to be. In the end it's about as ridiculous as... I don't know... some all-unifying organic force that ties all life in the universe together, not just with itself but in all other possible universes as well. That would be silly. Silly, and so powerfully story-breaking that no reasonable person would ever write it.

Evolution would not grant the Kelpiens the ability to sense arbitrary "danger". If we were to give them the benefit of the doubt, the only remotely reasonable way that his threat ganglia could possibly sense arbitrary danger is if it worked via tachyons in reverse time. And violated causality in the process, as well as raised all kinds of questions about free will. It would also give him a hugely overpowered advantage in nearly all situations, both combat and potentially fatal ones that they don't even see coming, if they took it to its natural conclusions. There could be an interesting story there, but since the characters in Discovery all exist in service to the season's plot rather than the other way around, we don't get that. It's a contrivance, like many throwaway things raised on Discovery and then dropped. :/ I'm hoping Season 2 finds a better balance and fleshes out the characters better.

Landry got such a short role. All we know about her is that Lorca must have saved her from washing out of Starfleet, because her few lines displayed an attitude which would make sure she doesn't belong outside of the band of rogues he's surrounded himself with, like Stamets.

Anyone else think that the spore drive in action looks completely ridiculous and hilarious?

I actually surprised myself in thinking that it's all a pretty neat effect, and I enjoy when I get to see them use it. I think it looks utterly stupid in the context of Star Trek in general and the time period the show takes place in specifically, but outside of that I actually enjoy it. I just can't buy it as part of the coherent universe or how it would realistically function (especially the spinning saucer segment). I'm also amused at how it seems to demonstrate some kind of "gravity" in space every time it drops out of the network.

[CharlesPhipps]

It doesn't. It's pseudoscience written by people with a failure in basic logic and no understanding whatsoever of what evolution means or how it works.

Your entire argument is confusing because the above was a joke and STAR TREK is a proud history of psychic powers.

After all, if we're going to complain about stupid science, we should start by complaining about faster than light travel.

Honestly, my inclination is that Kelpians don't actually sense danger but hostile intent from nearby animals (including people) since he doesn't have a "starship detector."

[Durandal_1707]

It doesn't. It's pseudoscience written by people with a failure in basic logic and no understanding whatsoever of what evolution means or how it works.

Your entire argument is confusing because the above was a joke and STAR TREK is a proud history of psychic powers.

Psychic powers are not even the beginning of it. Remember that the pilot that led to the original series involved the entire galaxy being encased in a "great barrier" which specifically targeted crew members that had ESP and morphed them into evil gods. How is that more plausible than anything in Discovery?

[CrypticMirror]

It doesn't. It's pseudoscience written by people with a failure in basic logic and no understanding whatsoever of what evolution means or how it works.

Your entire argument is confusing because the above was a joke and STAR TREK is a proud history of psychic powers.

Psychic powers are not even the beginning of it. Remember that the pilot that led to the original series involved the entire galaxy being encased in a "great barrier" which specifically targeted crew members that had ESP and morphed them into evil gods. How is that more plausible than anything in Discovery?

Because at the time psi powers and evolving into "perfect" humans were, while never mainstream science, at least being discussed as semi-serious scientific possibilities. The idea of telepathy was still being tested in some normal institutions into the early 1980s. It is true that in TOS it was romanticised and dramatised for a decent hour of action-television, but it did have some grounding in then current thinking. Whereas for STD it is just total bollocks right from the whole cloth.

[Durandal_1707]

It doesn't. It's pseudoscience written by people with a failure in basic logic and no understanding whatsoever of what evolution means or how it works.

Your entire argument is confusing because the above was a joke and STAR TREK is a proud history of psychic powers.

Psychic powers are not even the beginning of it. Remember that the pilot that led to the original series involved the entire galaxy being encased in a "great barrier" which specifically targeted crew members that had ESP and morphed them into evil gods. How is that more plausible than anything in Discovery?

Because at the time psi powers and evolving into "perfect" humans were, while never mainstream science, at least being discussed as semi-serious scientific possibilities. The idea of telepathy was still being tested in some normal institutions into the early 1980s. It is true that in TOS it was romanticised and dramatised for a decent hour of action-television, but it did have some grounding in then current thinking. Whereas for STD it is just total bollocks right from the whole cloth.

And a massive barrier enclosing the entire galaxy, energetic enough to destroy starships trying to pass through it, and specific enough to single out ESP-capable crew members for godhood?

C'mon.

[CharlesPhipps]

In the TV show Prime Suspects, their nerd character did say, "Star Trek isn't actually impossible just highly improbable."

Still, the Danger Sense of an Alien is a weird place to draw the line versus the fact Deana Troi is an empath in the 90s. I also feel the need to point out while psychic powers either don't exist or are so miniscule as to be unimportant, quantum mechanics and entanglement means a lot of the weirdness of them would be possible in theory--just aren't.

[Robovski]

I'm not a fan of the show but I'll give a pass on Cow danger sense considering the psychic powers already seen in Trek.

[Mickey_Rat15]

It doesn't. It's pseudoscience written by people with a failure in basic logic and no understanding whatsoever of what evolution means or how it works.

Your entire argument is confusing because the above was a joke and STAR TREK is a proud history of psychic powers.

After all, if we're going to complain about stupid science, we should start by complaining about faster than light travel.

Honestly, my inclination is that Kelpians don't actually sense danger but hostile intent from nearby animals (including people) since he doesn't have a "starship detector."

Is it supposed to be psychic powers or just an involuntary visual cue when something has put him on edge? Like a white tailed deer flashing its tail when it senses a potential threat or a human blushing in embarassment?

[BunBun299]

At the point the writer goes "anyone can die!" is also usually the point I go "then why should I care about anyone, then?"

I hope you only apply that reasoning to fiction instead of to real life, 'cause, hoo boy, that is some high grade nihilism.

...

What would possibly give you that impression?

Usually, when a writer[1] starts with the "anyone can die" bullcrap, it, in my experience, almost unilaterally means "we're going to kill off lots of characters because Drama!" And my attitude is if you (the writer) don't care about your characters except as fodder for (attempted) cheap emotional shock value, why the hell should I care about them? It is why I don't don't watch disaster or slasher movies. If you (the metaphorical you) will treat your protagonists with less regard than I treat my standard units in an RTS game, I'm not even going to give you the time of day for a choice in my entertainment media.

Character death does not equal good writing anymore than any other tool, but it is often given the correlation, and it's one I wholeheartedly disagree with. It says you cannot think of anymore stories to tell with that character, or that you rate short-term emotional impact (let's face it VERY few media dwell on characters that have died for very long) higher than long-term character development.



(I mean SURELY you weren't reading that as "if some writer says that they will show a eagerness and willingness to kill fictional characters in their work of fiction for some half-arsed goal of "realism" or really for shock value, Aotrs Commander will not care about anyone or anything in any universe ever, fictional or otherwise? That wouldn't be nihilism, that'd be completely bonkers...

...

I mean, sure, I'm quite, quite insane (or quite, quite sane, depending on perspective [2]) and I have a generally low regard for human life at the best of times because I'm Evil, but that is entirely earned by humanity's own actions, not because some writers like a high body-count in their stories...!)



[1]And if you do know how to contact writer of the real life universe, please do share it with me, I'd like to take up a few issues with them, starting with the everything...

[2]I.e. mine verses everyone else's...

I think Anyone Can Die philosophy can work. In fact, my 2 favorite shows of all time use it. 24 and Madoka Magica. In 24, the only characters who were truly safe were Jack Bauer, Kim Bauer and Chloe O'Brien. And even those 3 were put in mortal peril often enough to make you wonder. And when a named character died on that show, it mattered. I remember when Edgar died in season 5. Chloe was devastated, and could barely function, in spite the danger they were all still in. And we'd gotten to know Edgar over about a season and a half. We cared as much as Chloe did losing her friend.

Madoka Magica killed off half it's main cast. But each death mattered. Each was a fully developed character. And the first time it happened in episode 3, you did not expect Mami to die there. Up until the moment Charlotte but her head off, you expected someone to intervene. For Madoka or Sayaka to make their contracts, or for Homura to get loose and jump in at last minute. And her death shaped the rest of the show. Completely changed the tone. It mattered.

But too many show writers these days look at how things like these shocked viewers, and think they can make their own shows better, make them all "gritty" and "real" by showing their characters can die. They copy the spectical, but not the substance. Like the security officer in this STD episode. Nobody cares that she died. She showed up, had some lines, did something stupid while attempting to appear all badass, and died, having served her purpose to the plot.

This is not going to be a show that uses character death well. Over all, I don't like the Anyone Can Die thing. Yes, it can be done well. Yes, my first and second favorite shows of all time both did it, and I named examples. But it's something most shows will not do well, because as has been pointed out, the writers treat their characters as bonus points.

[J!!]

Like the security officer in this STD episode. Nobody cares that she died. She showed up, had some lines, did something stupid while attempting to appear all badass, and died, having served her purpose to the plot.

so, basically, she died just like any other red-shirt.