Rich People are Evil

[Mercury01]

It's much better to focus on and be happy with what YOU can do, even if that is only a little each month, and retweets/shares for people you want to help, as that's how YOU can do good.

And to an extent, I'm doing that. I honestly don't know where next month's rent is going to come from, but I still make sure to donate to relevant nonprofits during my holy days, even if it's just twelve bucks, or five bucks. I signal boost friends and strangers who have been cast into peril by a broken down car, a rise in the price of insulin, or who are living with an abusive father who beats them and threatens to kill their cat because it's the only way they can survive, and sometimes I break down and toss a few dollars their way. On the rare times where I have some stable, above-subsistence level source of income, I donate a fixed percent of that on top of everything else.

But it's sort of because of that, I am so frustrated for rich people. I feel worried and guilty about buying a slice of pizza when I'm hungry on a downtown errand, even necessities feel like overly expensive luxuries, I want to do so much more and help so much more and I still feel the pain when I give $12 to fix the environment that a very small portion of the population have fucked up for profit. And here these people are sitting on their piles of wealth, with cars they will never drive and houses they don't use, pushing money into lobbyists to make sure even more of it filters back into their coffers and fighting against the human rights of the people who sling their lates and raise their children and grow their food. The chronically ill, abuse survivor, starving artist friend I have...they could buy that person a house and cover their food and medical bills for life and literally not even notice the difference in their quality of life. They make more over one paid lunch break than I ever will in my entire life, no matter how hard I strive.

That's what REALLY pisses me off. I try to help people, I want to help people, but I am so limited in my power, and those who have the power to affect REAL, large-scale change...sit on it and do nothing, or hurt them even more.

Exactly. I don't begrudge the rich for spending money on frivolities. What makes me mad is how they leverage their money towards making sure other people don't get their money. Rich people lobby for tax cuts that benefit themselves. Rich people oppose social safety nets (wage increases, universal healthcare, etc.). Rich people oppose unions that benefit workers. Rich people move their investments to places they can better exploit for profit. Rich people influence the middle and working class to blame each other for their problems. Rich people are fixated on maintaining their wealth and lose empathy for their fellow human beings.

[Nevix]

It's much better to focus on and be happy with what YOU can do, even if that is only a little each month, and retweets/shares for people you want to help, as that's how YOU can do good.

And to an extent, I'm doing that. I honestly don't know where next month's rent is going to come from, but I still make sure to donate to relevant nonprofits during my holy days, even if it's just twelve bucks, or five bucks. I signal boost friends and strangers who have been cast into peril by a broken down car, a rise in the price of insulin, or who are living with an abusive father who beats them and threatens to kill their cat because it's the only way they can survive, and sometimes I break down and toss a few dollars their way. On the rare times where I have some stable, above-subsistence level source of income, I donate a fixed percent of that on top of everything else.

But it's sort of because of that, I am so frustrated for rich people. I feel worried and guilty about buying a slice of pizza when I'm hungry on a downtown errand, even necessities feel like overly expensive luxuries, I want to do so much more and help so much more and I still feel the pain when I give $12 to fix the environment that a very small portion of the population have fucked up for profit. And here these people are sitting on their piles of wealth, with cars they will never drive and houses they don't use, pushing money into lobbyists to make sure even more of it filters back into their coffers and fighting against the human rights of the people who sling their lates and raise their children and grow their food. The chronically ill, abuse survivor, starving artist friend I have...they could buy that person a house and cover their food and medical bills for life and literally not even notice the difference in their quality of life. They make more over one paid lunch break than I ever will in my entire life, no matter how hard I strive.

That's what REALLY pisses me off. I try to help people, I want to help people, but I am so limited in my power, and those who have the power to affect REAL, large-scale change...sit on it and do nothing, or hurt them even more.

Exactly. I don't begrudge the rich for spending money on frivolities. What makes me mad is how they leverage their money towards making sure other people don't get their money. Rich people lobby for tax cuts that benefit themselves. Rich people oppose social safety nets (wage increases, universal healthcare, etc.). Rich people oppose unions that benefit workers. Rich people move their investments to places they can better exploit for profit. Rich people influence the middle and working class to blame each other for their problems. Rich people are fixated on maintaining their wealth and lose empathy for their fellow human beings.

Mercury: So, there's the issue. We disagree on whether or not certain things actually help people.

Higher wages? San Francisco is having businesses either leave or shut down due to it's mandated minimum wage.

Unions? Many union protections are now in regular business law, private union membership has been steadily dropping due to corruption and less need for union protections. Public union membership has the issue that union leaders negotiate with elected officials for taxpayer money, and union officials are often politically active.

Higher taxes? They make business harder to run successfully, and choke out smaller businesses first. Rich people arguing for higher (income) taxes is exactly one of those "big business protecting themselves" problems.

Also, higher taxes mean that the rich want to find/lobby in loopholes more.

Taxes are like a restrictor plate on an engine. The higher the taxes, the slower the economy goes. The lower the taxes, and the less loopholes there are, the easier taxes are to manage.

Another misconception is that a corporate income tax is paid by the companies. The companies pass that cost onto consumers by raising prices, so it's a stealth tax on everyone.

Also, a progressive income tax punishes the rich by making them pay a higher percentage of what they make. A Flat Tax is actually fair, because everyone pays the same percentage of taxes. A Fair Tax (A national sales tax that only applied to new items, with NO other taxes) is even better, because that would get rid of the confiscatory Withholding that businesses have to do.

Universal Healthcare has never worked in the long term. It always goes bankrupt and ends with rationing, because there's only so much money that can be taken in taxes before a negative feedback loop of higher taxes/slower economy/less revenue/repeat occurs.

The worst thing about this is that the champions of those "solutions" are some of the richest hypocrites who benefit from tax loopholes and donations given by unions/big companies.

As for social safety nets, I don't have any problems with them, provided they are monitored for fraud, limited to those in need, and preferably tied to tax cuts that make living easier.

Yes, big companies and the rich DO want to keep their own money.

Why wouldn't they, when politicians talk about confiscating everything, and how the rich are horrible people who never care, no matter how much any of them give, or what good they've done?

This is a MAJOR problem in society right now.

Class envy.

It's actually being pushed HARD, because it distracts from the bad governmental policies that cause companies to throw money at politicians to keep them from taking more and more.



Vinod: Cronyism is not capitalism. It's just cronyism, and it's used to malign the free market by calling it crony capitalism. And yes, it's a bad thing. The less the federal and state governments do, the harder cronyism becomes.

The culture wars are useful to politicians, and the best way to stop those culture wars is to boot out the old guard politicians who cry foul and ignore their own hypocrisy, blame their problems on everything but their own actions, and never do anything. Also, School Vouchers, Term Limits, a Balanced Budget Amendment, further tax cuts, and a bill to allow bureaucrats who screw up to be fired for cause.

Fuzzy: That's up to each company. Shareholders are people to, especially since a LOT of retirement accounts have money in the stock market.

I also stand by my point that the best way to help people is to make it easier to live. Lower taxes and remove regulations so it's easier to afford food/gas/etc. To punish the biggest companies only encourages further corruption and bribery.

[Karha of Honor]

It's much better to focus on and be happy with what YOU can do, even if that is only a little each month, and retweets/shares for people you want to help, as that's how YOU can do good.

And to an extent, I'm doing that. I honestly don't know where next month's rent is going to come from, but I still make sure to donate to relevant nonprofits during my holy days, even if it's just twelve bucks, or five bucks. I signal boost friends and strangers who have been cast into peril by a broken down car, a rise in the price of insulin, or who are living with an abusive father who beats them and threatens to kill their cat because it's the only way they can survive, and sometimes I break down and toss a few dollars their way. On the rare times where I have some stable, above-subsistence level source of income, I donate a fixed percent of that on top of everything else.

But it's sort of because of that, I am so frustrated for rich people. I feel worried and guilty about buying a slice of pizza when I'm hungry on a downtown errand, even necessities feel like overly expensive luxuries, I want to do so much more and help so much more and I still feel the pain when I give $12 to fix the environment that a very small portion of the population have fucked up for profit. And here these people are sitting on their piles of wealth, with cars they will never drive and houses they don't use, pushing money into lobbyists to make sure even more of it filters back into their coffers and fighting against the human rights of the people who sling their lates and raise their children and grow their food. The chronically ill, abuse survivor, starving artist friend I have...they could buy that person a house and cover their food and medical bills for life and literally not even notice the difference in their quality of life. They make more over one paid lunch break than I ever will in my entire life, no matter how hard I strive.

That's what REALLY pisses me off. I try to help people, I want to help people, but I am so limited in my power, and those who have the power to affect REAL, large-scale change...sit on it and do nothing, or hurt them even more.

Exactly. I don't begrudge the rich for spending money on frivolities. What makes me mad is how they leverage their money towards making sure other people don't get their money. Rich people lobby for tax cuts that benefit themselves. Rich people oppose social safety nets (wage increases, universal healthcare, etc.). Rich people oppose unions that benefit workers. Rich people move their investments to places they can better exploit for profit. Rich people influence the middle and working class to blame each other for their problems. Rich people are fixated on maintaining their wealth and lose empathy for their fellow human beings.

Vinod: Cronyism is not capitalism. It's just cronyism, and it's used to malign the free market by calling it crony capitalism. And yes, it's a bad thing. The less the federal and state governments do, the harder cronyism becomes.

The culture wars are useful to politicians, and the best way to stop those culture wars is to boot out the old guard politicians who cry foul and ignore their own hypocrisy, blame their problems on everything but their own actions, and never do anything. Also, School Vouchers, Term Limits, a Balanced Budget Amendment, further tax cuts, and a bill to allow bureaucrats who screw up to be fired for cause.

Are politicians paying journalists to turn the USA into a nut house?

[ORCACommander]

What is wrong with a slower economy? If job growth keeps up with the birth rate i don't see a problem. runaway growth keeps causing large crashes in the long term.

So, we don't need unions because we have government regulation, but we need less government regulation for our businesses?
the big tax loophole is that corporate taxes are based on employee counts and not on your net profit. and it would not surprise me if they right there taxes off as expenses to lower that net profit margin margin.

And when it comes down to it, businesses will always operate in the manner that costs them the least amount of money they can legally or illegally not get away with

[TGLS]

Higher taxes? They make business harder to run successfully, and choke out smaller businesses first. Rich people arguing for higher (income) taxes is exactly one of those "big business protecting themselves" problems.

Which is why progressive taxes are effective. New businesses aren't making much money and have higher depreciation deductions than older businesses

Taxes are like a restrictor plate on an engine. The higher the taxes, the slower the economy goes. The lower the taxes, and the less loopholes there are, the easier taxes are to manage.

And what to do when the engine needs to be restarted? Or if the engine is running too hot? Taxes and spending helps manage the economy.

Another misconception is that a corporate income tax is paid by the companies. The companies pass that cost onto consumers by raising prices, so it's a stealth tax on everyone.

Corporate taxes are on the percentage of the profit. Why wouldn't a company charge the price that maximizes profit regardless of the taxes?

Also, a progressive income tax punishes the rich by making them pay a higher percentage of what they make. A Flat Tax is actually fair, because everyone pays the same percentage of taxes. A Fair Tax (A national sales tax that only applied to new items, with NO other taxes) is even better, because that would get rid of the confiscatory Withholding that businesses have to do.

What's to say a business wouldn't argue that they aren't selling a new sheet of steel but used coal and iron ore? Better to not bother with the difference. The other problem with sales taxes are that they are actually regressive because the rich spend a lesser portion of their income than the poor. The solution is to either balance them with progressive taxes or provide the lower incomes with an income tax rebate.

[Beastro]

There are dangers in excess wealth and the burden it places on people. Seems that once you have enough money to starve off monetarily resolved producers of suffering and anxiety, like paying bills and debt, there's not much benefit personal benefit to it.

The lot of the rich in life may be to bare the curse of wealth just as much as the poor endure privation.

This doesn't go into issues around bringing up happiness and meaning and how wealth seems to invert things to what you'd expect.

Jeff Bezos could end homelessness by giving every homeless person $100k and it would take less than 1% of the money he owns. But he doesn't. Because he's evil and worthless.

This and your living wage thread make sense now.

Life is complicated; but it'd be much easier with $100,000.00 instead of having to budget my new place and wait out this divorce in Tucson. But then my ex would probably want a lot of that money too instead of just my half of our house in Scotland...

That opens the can of worms with delayed gratification and fufillment in life.

I speak as someone who lost over a burdened pounds as a result of a period of privation that lacked heating where I lived. It's a situation I would not voluntarily return to, and yet I must say that I am fond that period of my life that allowed me to gain insight into what to be thankful for in a way that can only be done by being in such a situation, such as been thrilled to be given a toothbrush for Christmas.

That is, in my view, a form of Envy, Wrath, and a certain amount of misplaced Pride, which is a very toxic combination.

As if the lack of a sense of obligation towards society to do what one can to help.

The issue with this is we seem to focus on the rich to do that job instead of focusing on ourselves doing it day to day. There's only so much money can do, and given how isolated we've become in the past couple decades I doubt it would do much to help things long term.

It's much better to focus on and be happy with what YOU can do

Many people don't want to do this, especially when doing their part to make the world a better place is to focus on their own faults instead of societies. Often doing so is a mere outlet to allow them a sense that they are doing something while avoiding their own issues. I experienced that in my own way years ago wanting to help others with their problems until I realized what I was doing to myself.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

There are dangers in excess wealth and the burden it places on people. Seems that once you have enough money to starve off monetarily resolved producers of suffering and anxiety, like paying bills and debt, there's not much benefit personal benefit to it.

Yes, and most people in this nation cannot starve off bills and debt because the super-rich have decided the only way to maintain their power is by keeping as many people as they can in debilitating poverty.

The lot of the rich in life may be to bare the curse of wealth just as much as the poor endure privation.
.

Oh blueberry fucking ass muffins with blood butter on a deep-fried severed cock.

Really?

...really?

REALLY?!

[Darth Wedgius]

Oh blueberry fucking ass muffins with blood butter on a deep-fried severed cock.

Really?

...really?

REALLY?!

Breakfast time already?

[Nevix]

Are politicians paying journalists to turn the USA into a nut house?

In my opinion, and I would argue in evidence of obvious coverage bias, it's not that the politicians are paying the journalists to make the US a nuthouse. It's that many journalists are heavily biased to one side, and will happily characterize the other side as crazy, AND will lie if they think their party will get back in power.

Higher taxes? They make business harder to run successfully, and choke out smaller businesses first. Rich people arguing for higher (income) taxes is exactly one of those "big business protecting themselves" problems.

Which is why progressive taxes are effective. New businesses aren't making much money and have higher depreciation deductions than older businesses

Taxes are like a restrictor plate on an engine. The higher the taxes, the slower the economy goes. The lower the taxes, and the less loopholes there are, the easier taxes are to manage.

And what to do when the engine needs to be restarted? Or if the engine is running too hot? Taxes and spending helps manage the economy.

Another misconception is that a corporate income tax is paid by the companies. The companies pass that cost onto consumers by raising prices, so it's a stealth tax on everyone.

Corporate taxes are on the percentage of the profit. Why wouldn't a company charge the price that maximizes profit regardless of the taxes?

Also, a progressive income tax punishes the rich by making them pay a higher percentage of what they make. A Flat Tax is actually fair, because everyone pays the same percentage of taxes. A Fair Tax (A national sales tax that only applied to new items, with NO other taxes) is even better, because that would get rid of the confiscatory Withholding that businesses have to do.

What's to say a business wouldn't argue that they aren't selling a new sheet of steel but used coal and iron ore? Better to not bother with the difference. The other problem with sales taxes are that they are actually regressive because the rich spend a lesser portion of their income than the poor. The solution is to either balance them with progressive taxes or provide the lower incomes with an income tax rebate.

1: Progressive taxes, or bigger deductions for lower income brackets, have the same effect: Punishing higher wage earners with an unfair higher rate. It's unfairness billed as "fair" on the grounds that "they have more, let's take it!".

"Regressive" taxes are an argument that ignores the depressing effect of progressive taxes. The more you make, the less you keep, and the more likely you will get businesses that stop growing to avoid the higher taxes and increase in regulations.

Like businesses that keep only 49 employees to avoid Department of Labor regulations. Or people who stop earning at around $90,000 dollars because 100k caused a spike in tax rates.

Or the actual people I know who are in the below 10k bracket, and have to increase their income by a lump of several thousand (if not closer to 10k) because there are WAY too many holes between brackets.

A Flat Tax is the same no matter who pays it. If it's 10%, it's 10% for everyone, and it cuts out the compliance costs that add billions in tax compliance costs to businesses each year. Plus, this means that small businesses can plan around an exact percentage, as can big businesses too.

2: The economy is made of the billions of economic decisions made daily by the millions upon millions of people in the world. From your choice on whether or not to buy a snack, to every. Single. Business. And. Supplier. Making. Choices. On. Who. What. When. Where. Why. And how to buy everything and anything related to their business.

The government can't restart or control the economy effectively. It ALWAYS ends with the government causing upheaval at various points, because the government can't adjust to those billions of decisions and keep up.

If the stock market has gotten too high for the actual values of products and stocks, you'll see a correction. If it's "stopped"... well, those tax cuts have gotten the economy jumping. It was the high taxes and heavy regulations of the prior president that slowed the economy to a crawl.

The best thing the government can do is as little as possible to allow people to manage themselves and their businesses honestly.

3: Corporate taxes are still paid by the consumer who pays the corporation their money for the product or service. Hence, corporate are a tax on consumers, not the company.

4: A national sales tax CAN'T work if combined with other taxes. It's too much taxation. EVERYONE who has proposed a national sales tax has proposed changing to ONLY the sales tax.

Plus, you can provide a rebate on those taxes up to the poverty line.



I cannot stress enough that a progressive tax is unfairness masked as fairness. "Because they have more" is NOT a justification for higher taxes. It's covetous envy.

[ORCACommander]

except the larger a business gets, the less you can trust it to act in a legal or ethical manner. They don't care about their people after a certain point and they aren't gonna give two fucks about the people downwind or river that is being poisoned by their dumping because either, its legal and cheaper, not legal and think they can get away with it, or not legal and don't care if they get caught because the fine and lower cost is still cheaper. So no. you need to regulate business heavily to keep them honest. Explosive growth in the economy has Always lead to counter recessions. Sometimes growth is not good a good thing and there is a certain point where we need to split them up smaller to keep them honest in competition.

How are corporate taxes passed onto the consumer? we would be stuck in an escalated loop of increasing prices. Only way I can see this is under the labor model of taxes (which is a stupid way to tax) where it is easy to factor in the taxes as a cost to be compensated for. Instead businesses should be taxed on their profits and make sure those pesky little dividends are not counted as expenses. This way companies are encouraged to spend.

The stock market. How I hate this over glorified gambling house. Half the sins of free market enterprise can be laid at the feet of this institution and its precious shareholders. People are so ignorant as to think that when they buy stock that money goes to that company, that is only true in IPO's. Meanwhile corporate boards will do anything to increase their stock price (penis compensation logic) and increase dividends to their shareholders to keep them happy

you're right the tax bracket system is only fair if you are standing on one side of the bracket. Its roots in being fair is part crab mentality and That person is more capable than me, they should have to bare an increased proportion of the burden than I do.