On Political Violence

[Commander Vaughn]

The people who punched that man, and the people who rioted at Berkley and all these other places, are very much like the Brownshirts.

You are comparing people fighting back against people who are like the Brownshirts of being like the Brownshirts.

Because they ARE the Brownshirts. "Fighting back"? I didn't realize they were being physically threatened with harm by the words of a pencil thin gay man. You're saying they were justified in their violence there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm_hi5kAZQ

How about this guy? What threat did he pose that these people were "fighting back" against?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCwO-SIckzk

How about him? What'd he do that they needed to "fight back" against by kidnapping and torturing a special needs kid?

I can tell I gain nothing of value by engaging with you. You are so dead inside, so broken that you can look at bullies and victims and see them as equal. That's not a brave position to take, that is a lack of empathy on par with that of serial killers.

Look in the mirror, because you just described yourself. YOUR lack of empathy, decency, and basic humanity is sickening.

[Commander Vaughn]

The hypocrisy on display here is mind-blowing, though, particularly since the things which Trump puts forward, which you all decry as racist, Democrats have been doing for YEARS, and worse, and you guys just nod your head in approval without a second thought.

You're complaining that Trump wants to deport illegal aliens and build a wall? Here's Bill Clinton on illegal immigration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yesvvYEvs

Here's Barack Obama on illegal immigration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7LGoHV3aKs

Here's Hillary Clinton supporting building a wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S1uc47j1Q4

Are they all racists? Oh wait, they're Democrats, so saying the exact same things Trump has been saying doesn't make them racists just because. Obama's deported plenty of illegal aliens under his tenure. Did you label him a racist, too, for those deportations?

As for the travel ban, which is temporary until better background checks are in place (And is a ban of countries from a list put together by the Obama Administration as terrorist supporting nations), those are the same countries which Obama has spent eight years bombing. So you consider it racism for a temporary hold on travel from those places for a few months to make sure we're not getting terrorists... but NOT racist when Obama spends years BOMBING those same countries, killing possibly hundreds or even thousands over his administration? Interesting morality you have there. Keeping a person from boarding a plane and coming here for a few months until we can be certain they're not a terrorist, that's racism. BLOWING THEM UP, though, meh, that's okay.

[Durandal_1707]

You are comparing people fighting back against people who are like the Brownshirts of being like the Brownshirts.

Well, I'm not sure that's quite fair. There are lots of Firefly fans who are good and productive members of society, and...

Oh. Brown shirts.

Never mind.

[Arkle]

The people who punched that man, and the people who rioted at Berkley and all these other places, are very much like the Brownshirts.

You are comparing people fighting back against people who are like the Brownshirts of being like the Brownshirts.

Because they ARE the Brownshirts. "Fighting back"? I didn't realize they were being physically threatened with harm by the words of a pencil thin gay man. You're saying they were justified in their violence there?

Yes, because clearly you are too ignorant to realize that these things start with words. If enough people had punched Hitler in the face back when he was just a failed Austrian painter...

Look in the mirror, because you just described yourself. YOUR lack of empathy, decency, and basic humanity is sickening.

This is a lie of course, but I expect no one from someone who wants me to cry for a bully and denounce his victims. This will be my only post directed at you before adding you to the Foe list. You offer NOTHING of value to these forums, or to the world in general. Admiral X invoked 1984 to attack me, when he really should've used it to attack you. You call my empathy a lack of empathy for marginalized communities, call a bully a victim, call anti-fascists "fascists." The Party of that book would be proud to have you as a member.

People like you are embarrassing to read. To use comic book terms, you see yourselves as Superman when in reality you're not even a Lex Luthor, just a Lex Luthor-wannabe.

[Arkle]

I would like to take a moment to state something that I think should be obvious but sadly probably won't be.

Numerous people have disagreed with my stances in this thread. I have only muted TWO of them.

Please keep this in mind before accusing me of "just blocking anyone who disagrees."

Thank you.

[FakeGeekGirl]

Please note that Milo Yiannopolous has outed at least one transgender student leading to that person being harassed. His words ARE a very real threat to certain people. Should the Berkley protests have turned violent? No, but that doesn't make them the real bullies or whatever.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/milo-yi ... aukee.html

[Wild_Kraken]

Can't really fault the Berkeley protesters. There were indications that Milo was going to publicly name undocumented immigrant students. He of course denies this now, but given that conservative speakers have done this sort of thing on campus before (as the article notes) and Milo's willingness to out a transgender student, it's fair to say that this was a legitimate possibility. Good on them for shutting it down.

[Wargriffin]

Everyone. Please maintain a civil tone and refrain from personal attacks.

Too Late

Moral Superiority has arrived and once thats arrived... pretty much the conversation is over.

[PerrySimm]

Really appreciated SFDebris' link. If you haven't studied Daryl Davis or his work, you should. It seems to be required reading for an age where everyone is willing to dismiss you and your opinion out of hand for the most preposterous and superficial reasons.

It's not hard to find some commonality. We all enjoy science fiction, and presumably the prospect of a more prosperous, better functioning society IN THE FUTU~~~~~~~~~~~URE!

So how do we get there? As always, that's a matter for debate. But I did want to pick at a couple points...

Meanwhile I can find many from the left that are now moving away or now ashamed to have even been loosely associated.

This is more or less where I'm at. Bernie is my bro. And I am 100% for having loud, angry protests in the middle of an expressway at rush hour because society is ignoring you. But as soon as fists stop shaking in the air and start hitting faces and windows, you've passed out of the realm of speech.

I tend to believe that people will stop breaking windows if they are fed well enough to not be jealous of shopowners. But you require a certain degree of moral clarity to remember that political violence is a dark road unbecoming of the cause of civilization.

Numerous people have disagreed with my stances in this thread. I have only muted TWO of them..

A major problem with American society today is the average person's refusal to engage with ideological opponents, even in the same manner and platform. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you say you have blocked people over what seems to me to be a rancourous, but not excessively long tit-for-tat.

Even if I disagree, I am willing to listen, or sometimes skip past, but I view the urge to design a dissent-free universe as today's opiate of the masses.

[Wargriffin]

I think in the end Chuck's point is IT DOESN'T MATTER if he deserves it or not, thats just moral grandstanding in a subtle attempt to justify the beating.

The point is Violence does not solve the problem properly 'Unless you goal is to kill the guy then it solves it perfectly, I can't sit here with all of history behind me and say Violence is never the solution, I'll say Violence should be the last solution after others have been exhausted'