Movie Villain Master Plans (That Would've Failed Spectacularly Even If The Heroes Hadn't Intervened)

[Nessus]

Been a while since I've seen the film, but IIRC the nazis did have movie cameras filming their attempt to open the ark, though they're easy to miss. I think they got fried or depowered during the magic lightstorm along with the other equipment though.

I half agree with Fuzzy above about the depiction of religion in Indiana Jones. My perception of it was always that it tended to operate uncomfortably legalistically or mechanically. That is to say, your intent or "heart" doesn't matter so much (if at all) as whether or not you're fulfilling the ritual(s) correctly. We never see them kill a nazi because they're a nazi, we see them kill nazis because they looked when they weren't supposed to, or drank from the wrong cup, or whatnot. The lore Indy (and his dad) exposit shows a similar pattern: the power is real, but the people who harnessed it in the past (Israelites, crusaders) are never implied to have done so because of who they were or what their character was, they just knew the right rules to follow.

This still comes out as a bit Lovecraftian IMO, in that it implies that the higher powers involved aren't really what their religions believe they are. Those religions are worshiping real supernatural powers, using "correct" methods, but they're completely wrong or clueless as to the wants or motives of those powers. Like a copper age metalsmith who thinks his forge is powered by salamanders, they know just enough about how it works symptomatically to make use of it, but the rest is just promoted guesswork.

Even in TOD: IIRC the Sankara stones are implied to be what's powering the Kali cult's powers, and they were stolen from a village that was using them to make their farming supernaturally productive (or something vaguely like that). The stones don't care about "good" or "evil", they just provide magic to whoever's in possession of them and knows how to hook up to the psychic battery leads.

I haven't seen "Crystal Skull", but I've heard it's similar: the bad guys get killed because they got cocky/desperate and tried to grab too much without taking precautions, not because the aliens judged them unworthy.

It appears (to me, at least) to be one of those cosmologies where heaven and hell aren't "good" and "bad", just warring factions with humanity caught between...only without the factions. Just impersonal, legalistic powers that get interpreted through mythology as "good" or "evil" depending on the disposition of the humans who tapped into them.

[Fianna]

That's kinda how most ancient religions worked, though. Myths are full of stories of people stealing magical artifacts from the gods or other spiritual beings to use for their own ends, or of two people or factions both receiving divine aid in battle even when they're battling against each other.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Honestly, I DID see Crystal Skull and I STILL have no idea why the aliens fried the Russian Dominatrix but not the heroes. I'm not sure if the knowledge-download was too much for her puny human brain to take, or if she didn't consecrate herself popularly, or if they hate communists.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's an actual line from one of my books where I analyze the "Raiders Paradox."

"It's like Indiana Jones and the Ark. Indy didn't need to be there."

"No, that's wrong because Marion would have died."

The stakes are different, not the heroics. Mind you, yes, in Indiana Jones there's a lot of subtext that mankind needs to be humble before the powers they meddle with and if Indy hadn't been there then Berlin probably would have been eradicated by the wrath of God. Whether that would have been a good thing or not depends on your view of how that would impact history.

Also, the idea the "ritual" is what's important is completely missing the point. Steven Spielberg is Jewish. He's making a point the Nazis (avowed enemies of the Jewish race) attempting to use the Ark to talk to the GOD OF THE JEWS is a stupid move that could never have ended well. They confused religion for magic.

Which is the flaw of Belloq's plan.

I feel this is one of those movies that is affected by your background in religion sort of like how Ken Levine got a bunch of his programmers to quit on him because he didn't understand how Baptism or Rebirth worked in Christianity. The assumption is Yahweh is a good God and anti-Nazi but he's not a SAFE God. The movie has a lot of subtext about Indiana Jones being a mercenary, a thief, and a criminal with no faith who encounters something that restores his humanity. Which is Marion. The ark is just gravy.

There's a similar flaw in the Temple of Doom. Molan Ram is breaking all manner of taboos and showing insufficient respect to Shiva, which is why the rocks turn against him.

[CharlesPhipps]

A couple of other plans which would have failed:

1. Lex Luthor's plans in Superman's movies are notoriously terrible but the massive transformation of California into an island bunch of real estate is not going to help matters as while he may own the property, it's going to be the greatest human rights disaster in American history. The economy will crash, culture will change, and it may devastate America as a whole. All of which Lex wouldn't understand because he's a psychopath. It's x10 in Superman Returns.

2. Pretty much all of Weyland Yutani's plans for the xenomorph as there's a reason the Army doesn't train tigers. The xenomorphs are incredibly effective apex predators but they're also things you can't possibly train and are incredibly difficult to control. Turning them into dogs is a very questionable action even with advanced science and you'd be better off just training dogs.

3. Prometheus' Liz Shaw's plans to go talk to the genocidal aliens who want to murder humanity without telling humanity about the genocidal aliens who want to murder humanity. Well, we saw how it turned out in Covenant but it was stupid before then. If she'd gone back to Earth with the alien starship then she'd have been the world's biggest hero with proof of a major threat.

4. General Zod's plan to terraform Earth and repopulate it has some merit because Superman has the genetic structure for it but without Jor-El, THEY HAVE ONE SCIENTIST. They also have no infrastructure and could have just terraformed Mars instead and kept their superhuman powers. They could have used Earth's help in the process then. If they'd gone that way they could have had Kal-El, Jor-El, and more's help in this.

5. Black Panther: Perhaps being too generous but I think Killmonger's character became unhinged because he utterly moved out of his comfort zone once he "won." He was fully capable of taking the throne but utterly unskilled and unprepared for any kind of ruling. The situation also got worse because Killmonger's perspective is utterly alien.

"You could have intervened in the slave trade, imperialism, and genocides! Our people died by the millions!"
"No Wakandans died."

Which just deflates anything he has argument wise as the people there simply don't care. He's as alone and vilified in Wakanda as he is in America. He was looking for a home and found none.

It's part of why he burns the tree because, well, he doesn't respect Wakanda or its traditions.

[Admiral X]

I feel this is one of those movies that is affected by your background in religion sort of like how Ken Levine got a bunch of his programmers to quit on him because he didn't understand how Baptism or Rebirth worked in Christianity.

Could you go into this more? I'm curious exactly what happened.

[GandALF]

I feel this is one of those movies that is affected by your background in religion sort of like how Ken Levine got a bunch of his programmers to quit on him because he didn't understand how Baptism or Rebirth worked in Christianity.

Could you go into this more? I'm curious exactly what happened.

IIRC one programmer almost quit over an early draft of Infinite and Levine revised it with said programmer's feedback as he freely admits he had trouble understanding those concepts.

[CharlesPhipps]

I feel this is one of those movies that is affected by your background in religion sort of like how Ken Levine got a bunch of his programmers to quit on him because he didn't understand how Baptism or Rebirth worked in Christianity.

Could you go into this more? I'm curious exactly what happened.

Basically, Ken Levine thought the whole "wipe away sin" element of Christianity was kind of ridiculous and made it a central point about Comstock that he's this former US calvaryman who got baptised after Wounded Knee and more or less thought he didn't have to deal with any of the horrible atrocities he'd committed. Basically, he saw the entire thing as akin to the fact Darth Vader gets away with 20 years of genocide and into Force Heaven.

One of his programmers threatened to quit because it was severely insulting to his religion. Especially since Comstock runs a religiously themed racist tyranny where they plan to commit genocide against all other people. Eventually, Ken softened the treatment of religion after talking with them a bit and made it clear Booker needed forgiveness just as much as Constock.

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/03/how-o ... al-themes/

[CharlesPhipps]

I feel this is one of those movies that is affected by your background in religion sort of like how Ken Levine got a bunch of his programmers to quit on him because he didn't understand how Baptism or Rebirth worked in Christianity.

Could you go into this more? I'm curious exactly what happened.

IIRC one programmer almost quit over an early draft of Infinite and Levine revised it with said programmer's feedback as he freely admits he had trouble understanding those concepts.

Eh, I heard the story second or third hand. Sorry.

[Admiral X]

Interesting - I hadn't heard any of that. Thanks.