CrypticMirror wrote:As an aside I hate what the G1 comics have done with Arcee as a character (she was originally a male Autobot that got tortured into being a girl...!)
....what?
That's... what?!
*sigh*
Yeah, that's ridiculous.
You know, the writers of Transformers Animated could possibly be accused of slighting female TFs. In the TFA continuity Arcee has been a brain-dead vegetable for eons, with her story tied into Ratchet's background, and she is stated as having been the TF equivalent of a schoolteacher...but at least her character had some nobility in what happened to her. That during the Great War of the backstory she joined up to serve with Autobot Intelligence, and as a former teacher she was tapped to be the bot that the newly-built, mentally-simple superweapon Omega Supreme would imprint upon and be guided by, but the Decepticons identified her and attacked her, sending a skilled bounty hunter (Lockdown) to capture her and steal the codes, just for her to insist Ratchet use his EMP device to mind-wipe her and turn her into said vegetable. She was ready to sacrifice her mind, her life, to safeguard a victory for the Autobots in the war.
Now yes, there are some flaws in this of course from the POV of wanting a prominent female character, but at least it kept Arcee's heroism, and didn't do this ridiculous "sex change from torture" bullshit.
BTW, for those who like Hot Rod/Rodimus getting humiliated, the TFA version of Rodimus Prime gets incapacitated/shut down by space rust in the midst of getting his ass kicked by a female Decepticon and her team. I'll note that in TFA continuity, the rank of Prime is not for Autobot leaders but is something of a Captain-level rank. The rank of Magnus is for leaders - and yes, Ultra Magnus is the one holding said rank - and Alpha Trion leads the Autobot civilian government. Optimus himself is a disgraced officer - though still a Prime - kicked out of the top academy for the Autobot Elite Guard unit, although that's because he gets the blame for an incident that fellow cadet Sentinel was truly responsible for.
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
Administrator of SFD, Former Spacebattles Super-Mod, Veteran Chatnik. And multiverse crossover-loving writer, of course!
I love the review but was disappointed that Chuck took the usual tack of blaming Hot Rod for Optimus's death. I know it's not popular, but I always liked the character so I'm going to go to the mat for ol' Hot Rod.
Chuck is right that Hot Rod is impulsive. Firing on the shuttle is not the right thing to do. But what's key to remember is that while Hot Rod is impulsive, he is neither cowardly nor self serving. His heart is always in the right place, even if he does the wrong thing.
The first point of contention seems to be Hot Rod wanting to help Optimus, and being specifically warned to stay back by Kup. People seem to think that Hot Rod recklessly disregarded Kup's advice and charged into the middle of the fight. That's NOT what happens. Hot Rod actually hangs back and allows Optimus to handle it, as the fight really has only just begun when Kup issues this warning. Optimus wins the fight unaided. Hot Rod really only gets involved because something very specific happens.
Optimus has his rifle trained on Megatron, and Megatron is on his knees without a weapon. But, Megatron does spot a blaster near him. The debris lays in such a way that Megatron can see the blaster but Optimus cannot. Megatron then starts begging Optimus for mercy, which disgusts Optimus. Megatron's goal seems to be to get Optimus to lower his guard so that Megatron can grab the gun, aim and shoot. Optimus already has his gun trained on Megatron, so Optimus would most likely be able to get a shot off first unless Megatron can get him to lower his guard.
This is where Hot Rod comes in. Hot Rod appears to be behind and to the side of Megatron. what this means is that Hot Rod seems to have seen the gun Megatron was going for, and knew Optimus couldn't see it. He know what Megatron was trying to pull. So he decided to intervene.
Let's take a step back and ask, with this knowledge, what could Hot Rod have done, and what could have happened?
The way I see it, Hot rod could have only done three things in that moment:
1) Physically intervene, (which is what he actually attempted to do,) and get the gun away from Megatron.
2) Warn Optimus verbally, essentially shouting "look out he's got a gun!"
3) Do nothing, and trust Optimus to handle the situation.
As said, Hot Rod chose option one, but failed, as he was overpowered by Megatron which prevented prime from firing, leading to his death. Many fans, Chuck included, see this as critical mistake, that Hot Rod should have known better, and that he should have done nothing. Frankly, I think that's monday morning quarterbacking. Each of those scenarios could have succeeded or failed. I don't want to weigh the odds out on them, but failure in any case would put undue blame on Hot Rod. For instance:
2) Hot Rod verbally warns Optimus about the gun. So at least he isn't getting in Optimus's way. but the timing on this could be crucial. If Hot Rod communicates it at just the right time, he gives Optimus the crucial info he needs to protect himself. However, it's also possible that Hot Rod attempting this actually momentarily distracts and/or confuses Optimus, giving Megatron the crucial moment he needs to strike. and again, the fandom would say "Hot Rod should have kept his trap shut.
3) Let's say Hot Rod does what the fandom suggests and does absolutely nothing. He sees the gun, knows what Megatron is attempting, but trusts Optimus. Now Optimus does have the tactical advantage, but there are no guarantees. It is fully within the realm of possibility Megatron could still get the gun and shoot prime before prime can shoot him, or prime can miss. Or megatron maybe could've gotten optimus to lower his guard. In heavy metal war, Megatron observes that Optimus's only weakness is "his overdeveloped sense of honor," (much like worf) and Megatron was definitly playing that again. Point is, Megatron could have killed prime even if Hot Rod stayed away, only in this scenario Hot Rod just looks like he was waiting around with his thumb up his butt instead of doing something, when he knew what Megatron was attempting.
That's why I don't really blame hot rod. He wasn't vain glorious or self serving. He really was trying to save Optimus. And for what it's worth, there's not a whisper in the rest of the movie that Hot Rod was to blame.
As an aside though, from a writing stand point there had to be a better way to handle that. Hot Rod is the guy you're setting up to replace Optimus Prime, and you stage it so that the audience comes away feeling like Hot Rod got him killed? boo.
I think the point of blaming Hot Rod is that he did, in that moment, make the worst choice he could have made, because he was impulsive and didn't think the situation through. Yes, things still could have gone wrong had HR called out a warning, or if he had observed quietly, but the chances are significantly lower. Instead of calling out a warning that Megatron's going for a gun, or remaining quiet, or better yet, shooting Megatron when he goes for the gun (which, granted, presumes he still had the energy reserves to fire - it's possible he didn't, given he didn't shoot Megatron afterward), Hot Rod rushed him and made it impossible for Optimus to get a clear shot.
That's why he can be reasonably blamed.
Phipps' point is a good one, I agree. As I said, the movie would have benefited from showing us a few more moments of Hot Rod being more thoughtful while living with the guilt that his reckless actions had directly contributed to Optimus dying. The scene with the Junkions is, in fact, a scene we needed to show that. Hot Rod, instead of acting reckless and attacking the Junkions - as he might have done before Optimus' death - acts thoughtfully. As a result, enemies are made into allies, and Ultra Magnus is repaired.
It should be noted that according to storyboards - I think it was storyboarrds anyway - Magnus' death was originally via being ripped apart by the Sweeps. But it was decided that depicting the drawing and quartering of even a robot might be too graphic. It would make his re-assembly by the Junkions rather easier to accept.
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
Administrator of SFD, Former Spacebattles Super-Mod, Veteran Chatnik. And multiverse crossover-loving writer, of course!
Steve wrote:I think the point of blaming Hot Rod is that he did, in that moment, make the worst choice he could have made, because he was impulsive and didn't think the situation through. Yes, things still could have gone wrong had HR called out a warning, or if he had observed quietly, but the chances are significantly lower. Instead of calling out a warning that Megatron's going for a gun, or remaining quiet, or better yet, shooting Megatron when he goes for the gun (which, granted, presumes he still had the energy reserves to fire - it's possible he didn't, given he didn't shoot Megatron afterward), Hot Rod rushed him and made it impossible for Optimus to get a clear shot.
That's why he can be reasonably blamed.
Is it just me or does that sound a lot like hindsight?
If Chuck or a mod reads this feel free do delete my account. I would do it myself but I don't seem to be able to find a delete account option. phpBB should have such an option but I guess this isn't stock phpBB.
Draco Dracul wrote:One thing I've wondered is why they didn't use Bumblebee in place of Hot Rod. I mean unlike the season one and two toys, the movie and season 3 toys were actually designed for Transformers, and the matrix physically altered Hot Rod anyway so you could still get a new toy out of it.
Seriously, they should have done that.
Have Bumble Bee transform at the end of the movie into Golden Prime or something.
Same story but with a character that people know and appreciate completing a character arc.
Golden Prime? Wouldn't his name be Bumble Prime?
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
CrypticMirror wrote:As an aside I hate what the G1 comics have done with Arcee as a character (she was originally a male Autobot that got tortured into being a girl...!)
....what?
That's... what?!
*sigh*
Yeah, that's ridiculous.
.
That is what every subsequent writer, and every fan, said. The writer had a failure of imagination and somehow decided that the only way they could have had female transformers was if someone specifically altered the "male" bots to become them. And then he decided that torture was the way to go on the motivations for that. There has been a lot of work from the subsequent writers to roll that one back for other female characters but they are stuck with it as far as Arcee is concerned. She's apparently so broken she cannot even think of herself as non-female. She did get to spend a few years in a dimension that was like DS9's Battle Lines, where people just cannot die no matter how many times they are killed, killing the guy who did it to her over and over and over and over again. Also she later ripped Astrotrain apart with her bare hands.
As a balance to terrible characterization (WT...? "Next time you get lost, you will stop and ask for directions! Swear to it, or the pain will continue!"), I really liked the Transformers: Prime characterization for Arcee. Her characterization flowed organically from her past, and could've been given to any other 'bot.
Steve wrote:I think the point of blaming Hot Rod is that he did, in that moment, make the worst choice he could have made, because he was impulsive and didn't think the situation through. Yes, things still could have gone wrong had HR called out a warning, or if he had observed quietly, but the chances are significantly lower. Instead of calling out a warning that Megatron's going for a gun, or remaining quiet, or better yet, shooting Megatron when he goes for the gun (which, granted, presumes he still had the energy reserves to fire - it's possible he didn't, given he didn't shoot Megatron afterward), Hot Rod rushed him and made it impossible for Optimus to get a clear shot.
That's why he can be reasonably blamed.
Is it just me or does that sound a lot like hindsight?
It is but I think that doesn't mean much to emotions and guilt.
