The Dark Knight

[MithrandirOlorin]

Is still my favorite movie, or at least my favorite Live Action and/or Western Movie, as I've lately come to highly favor Anime, but I can't so for certain any Anime movie I've seen has surpassed it yet.

But the thing I want to say about Chuck's review, is that he did it at all. Because it seems only I have noticed that, as a stand alone film, The Dark Knight has aboslutly NO Sci-FI or Fantasy elements.

So in fact Contradiction is not the only thing on the site that is an exception to that rule.

Noir (my favorite Anime) comes closer to having a Sci-Fi or Fantasy element to it. And I have no plans on ever attempting to get it on the Que. That one maybe element is all in the bizarre question of where The Manor actually is.

But back on Topic. The Joker is my favorite Super Villain, or at least my favorite form a work of Western Fiction. He is the Avatar of pure Chaos.

[Admiral X]

I actually prefer Batman Begins to its sequels, which probably makes me a bit weird. I liked how The Dark Knight handled the Joker and Harvey Dent, but I think Two-Face should've stayed until the next movie. The thing I hate worst about that is the rationale for Batman taking on all the blame for all of his murders as Two-Face, because it makes no sense that everything Harvey Dent had done up to the point he'd been kidnapped would suddenly be invalid. I likewise think The Dark Knight Rises tried to take on too much and suffered from a few logic problems as well, the ending among them.

[Rocketboy1313]

I would say that all of the "science" Batman uses to investigate is pretty out there technology. Bullet reconstruction and finger printing seems pretty out there to me.

The biggest science fiction ethics question is the existence of the cell phone monitoring system which is a dystopian nightmare... Or as the US government calls it, PRISM.

[Dînadan]

+1 to what Rocketboy said on the SF elements to the film.

. The thing I hate worst about that is the rationale for Batman taking on all the blame for all of his murders as Two-Face, because it makes no sense that everything Harvey Dent had done up to the point he'd been kidnapped would suddenly be invalid.

I don't think it was a case that it invalidated them as such, but rather the in the eyes of the public it would have tarnished his image/legacy and his opponents would have used it to smeer him and try to get the good he did overturned. Just look at the recent US election; regardless of how bad or good Hillary would have been as a President or of any good she's done in other roles, the merest suspicion that she'd leaked emails was enough for the right to run a smeer campaign against her even after she'd been cleared of wrong doing (at least in that regard). The same would have happened with Dent's legacy and overtime the perception of him would have been twisted to focus on the bad he did rather than those good things.

[J!!]

"what would be the consequences if an insane billionaire put on a suit of armor and went around beating the shit out of criminals?" sounds pretty speculative to me

[rickgriffin]

What does/doesn't count as science fiction is always gonna be based on how the story associates itself more than its actual content. For instance, I watched an episode of Columbo in which Robbie the Robot made a guest appearance. Right?! Apparently in this plot he was built by a supergenius kid. Does that make Columbo science fiction? No, it's still classified as mystery, because the show itself doesn't really care about the result of this one-off premise. It's the same with CSI--no matter how much gadgetry they use that doesn't actually exist, and in some cases CAN'T actually exist, it doesn't really make it sci-fi.

The Dark Knight being science fiction is more a result of its roots than the movie itself. But I think the real question is "Are cape comics science fiction?" and I would say, yes but only in the broadest sense. Cape Comics have more of a tendency to veer into "modern myth". It borrows thoughts and ideas from science fiction (because in the modern day, "science" is what lends legitimacy to an out-there concept) but it plays fast and loose with it in service of giving texture to the hero's world.

So the Dark Knight itself only has the barest hints of sci-fi, but because it revolves around a mythical hero, technically it still falls under that venue simply because that's where modern mythical heroes go.

[FakeGeekGirl]

I would like to see Chuck do more superhero works and discuss the implications of the modern myth / superhero connection.

I have a very ... special connection to this movie. Like Admiral X I actually prefer Batman Begins, but this movie saved my life.

I was severely depressed in high school, borderline suicidal. I was in my head all the time, living with my own self-loathing and hatred.

This movie got me out of my head. It wasn't happy, but it was interesting and it was something to think about other than, "I'm worthless, I'm stupid, I'm a whore (who's never even kissed a boy), I deserve the bullying I've received." Movies that serve as an escape aren't always lighthearted escapism.

As to the point of this post whether this counts as sci-fi ... On the one hand I would say yes. Despite being given credit for "realism" this is still in many ways a very unrealistic movie. But then again, many action movies include improbably elements but aren't generally considered "sicence fiction." I agree with rickgriffin's point that our classification of speculative fiction has much more to do with the work's "lineage" than content. A lot of horror could fit into fantasy or science fiction (think; the fantastical elements of any haunted house movie or Freddy Kreuger's dream powers of Jason Voorhees constantly returning from the dead, the science fiction elements of a mad scientist or virus raising the dead in zombie movies) but it's still considered predominantly horror because of the emotions it's meant to invoke and the other fictional works it is related to. Bangsian fantasy, or fantasy about the afterlife (The Lovely Bones, What Dreams May Come), is technically considered fantasy but when we think of it we usually group it with dramas and melodramas, because it usually focuses more on human interactions and consequences of daily life than the mechanics of the afterlife, with a few exceptions of course (which are usually more easily grouped into speculative fiction).

[Wargriffin]

Rises either needed to be two movies... or needed to cut a character 'You know who'

or arguably merge the two.

[Admiral X]

I was severely depressed in high school, borderline suicidal. I was in my head all the time, living with my own self-loathing and hatred.

This movie got me out of my head. It wasn't happy, but it was interesting and it was something to think about other than, "I'm worthless, I'm stupid, I'm a whore (who's never even kissed a boy), I deserve the bullying I've received." Movies that serve as an escape aren't always lighthearted escapism.

[FakeGeekGirl]

I was severely depressed in high school, borderline suicidal. I was in my head all the time, living with my own self-loathing and hatred.

This movie got me out of my head. It wasn't happy, but it was interesting and it was something to think about other than, "I'm worthless, I'm stupid, I'm a whore (who's never even kissed a boy), I deserve the bullying I've received." Movies that serve as an escape aren't always lighthearted escapism.

I was made unreasonably happy by the hugging emoji. Thank you! I am doing much better now. But high school ... those were dark days for me. I imagine that's the case for many nerds, honestly.