Empire Strikes Back

[ChrisTheLovableJerk]

I felt inspired to finally join this forum.

Me speaking personally, I'm barely bothered by the Special Edition changes, as I grew up on them, and upon watching the unaltered versions, they did feel incomplete to me, but that's probably because of how I was introduced to Star Wars.

I personally feel the bit with the Emperor is fine, and Vader is finally deciding there's no avoiding this conversation and ask him what's up with his kid even being born, let alone still alive. Palpatine was aware of Luke by this point, so I think Vader wanted to lessen the chances of him knowing what he really planned to do with Luke and play dumb. The Sith's games are like that.

Also, sorry Chuck but 'Too old for this Sith'... isn't a good pun.

I never noticed before when watching the movie, but I just now spotted those braids on Boba's right shoulder.

I tend to accept that one 'terrible' comic Chuck mentioned, or at least the last few pages, as it not only fixes continuity, but explains why the Imperials gave Chewie 3PO's body instead of just throwing it back into the scrapheap or throwing it into the smelting furnace personally this time. I mean, I don't really see the Stormtroopers taking pity on them and letting Chewie have his friend.

[SotF]

You know, with all of the Star Wars stuff currently done, the site might need a Star Wars category now...

[cdrood]

The change in dialog between Vader and the Emperor is only passable if you view it as Vader lying his ass off. He'd pretty much said he was concentrating on finding Skywalker about 15 times by that point.

That search is one of the great things about this film. Crushing the rebellion and destroying their base on Hoth are merely means to an end. Luke's the only thing he gives a crap about. Leia's position as an Alliance leader isn't even brought up. This whole movie is Vader freelancing and not a single Imperial officer has the guts to call him on it. They're tailing one small freighter when larger ships with a lot more people and equipment got away. This movie is Luke and Vader, not Rebellion vs. Empire.

One of the great scenes that doesn't get enough mention is Vader shooting Han's blaster fire. This is really the first time we truly see the kind of power we're dealing with. Vader choking out a few officers isn't necessarily as impressive because these guys don't outrank him and even if they could defy him, he could just execute them by other means. This is the first time we see the Force really used against an enemy and it's badass. It's very much helped by Solo's reaction to seeing Vader being instantaneous. No hesitation, just draw and fire. Two badasses meet face to face and we're shown one is completely out of his league.

[bronnt]

Second, Vader's 'temper tantrums', something Zahn ascribed to the character when contrasting Vader with Thrawn; the idea that he would execute officers for any failure, when Chuck clearly reads Vader's actions as not being all that dissimilar from Thrawns

Without even referencing the EU, I think it's clear that Vader is unhinged at this point. I find it weird how many people accept Vader's explanation that Admiral Ozzel screwed up. Vader says the Rebels were able to raise their deflectors because Ozzel came out of hyperspace too close to the system. The earlier scene where the Rebels find the probe droid and then prep for the evacuation really absolves Ozzel of a lot of the blame. This was Vader lashing out in frustration at the likeliest target and setting an example.

You can debate on other tactics that might have worked, but the Rebels were already well into their evacuation plans before the fleet ever showed up. Ozzel is no more guilty than Captain Needa, whose ship lose the Falcon due to a clever trick that wasn't his fault, and went to apologize in person.

[Seaward]

Second, Vader's 'temper tantrums', something Zahn ascribed to the character when contrasting Vader with Thrawn; the idea that he would execute officers for any failure, when Chuck clearly reads Vader's actions as not being all that dissimilar from Thrawns

Without even referencing the EU, I think it's clear that Vader is unhinged at this point. I find it weird how many people accept Vader's explanation that Admiral Ozzel screwed up. Vader says the Rebels were able to raise their deflectors because Ozzel came out of hyperspace too close to the system. The earlier scene where the Rebels find the probe droid and then prep for the evacuation really absolves Ozzel of a lot of the blame. This was Vader lashing out in frustration at the likeliest target and setting an example.

You can debate on other tactics that might have worked, but the Rebels were already well into their evacuation plans before the fleet ever showed up. Ozzel is no more guilty than Captain Needa, whose ship lose the Falcon due to a clever trick that wasn't his fault, and went to apologize in person.

Perfectly valid way to look at it, I'm not debating whether or not Vader is actually unhinged or at all justified in his summary executions, just contrasting how Chuck views it with how later media portrays it.

Though for my thoughts, remember that Vader executed Ozzel before the attack was made, before the Rebels were known to be evacuating. And the Rebels, to the best of our knowledge, would have raised the shield so early regardless of whether or not the'd found the probe. It seems to me that they'd be watching the skies with just as much focus, even before they knew the Empire had located them.

[bronnt]

Though for my thoughts, remember that Vader executed Ozzel before the attack was made, before the Rebels were known to be evacuating. And the Rebels, to the best of our knowledge, would have raised the shield so early regardless of whether or not the'd found the probe. It seems to me that they'd be watching the skies with just as much focus, even before they knew the Empire had located them.

Ozzel's plan was to surprise the base by dropping out of hyperspace and bombarding the planet before they could raise their shields. The fact that the Rebels knew the Empire was coming meant they weren't surprised at all by Star Destroyers dropping out of hyperspace within the system.

If we're looking at Star Wars as World War II (in Space!), this is like the radar operator at Pearl Harbor having learned that diplomatic relations with Japan had broken down and a surprise attack was expected. The Rebels' response time was dramatically improved by the fact that they were already effectively at Red Alert.

[Independent George]

This discussion is making me think of the Chappelle Show: Is Darth Vader going to have to choke a bitch?

[Wargriffin]

Ozzel got executed for pure incompetence and Disobeying orders

The scene with Piett already established that Ozzel will dismiss good advice strictly cause he outranks you.

Ozzel coming out of hyperspace right on top of the planet was clearly not the intended plan as Veers tries to defend Ozzel's decision... implying Vader gave strict orders before retiring to his chamber.

Ozzel had it coming... Needa's death is probably the one most ascribe 'Vader chokes everybody temper' is drawn from

[bronnt]

Ozzel got executed for pure incompetence and Disobeying orders

The scene with Piett already established that Ozzel will dismiss good advice strictly cause he outranks you.

Ozzel coming out of hyperspace right on top of the planet was clearly not the intended plan as Veers tries to defend Ozzel's decision... implying Vader gave strict orders before retiring to his chamber.

Ozzel had it coming... Needa's death is probably the one most ascribe 'Vader chokes everybody temper' is drawn from

I'm really struggling to come to grips with this. Ozzel didn't even dismiss Piett, he merely pointed out that existence of a settlement isn't proof that there's a major rebel base there. He said, "I want proof, not leads!" The main thing that comes up in that scene is that Vader is absolutely certain (likely because of Force magic) and Ozzel dares to question that certainty, even slightly. Then Vader is already annoyed with him so he's ready to murder the instant something else goes wrong.

I mean, Ozzel is a high-ranking officer in an evil empire so it's possible he wasn't a stand-up guy to begin with, but I don't think he does anything even slightly wrong here.

[SFDebris]

Ozzel sealed his fate the moment he started mansplaining to the Dark Lord.