Empire Strikes Back

[AllanO]

No Palpatine says "It seems" that is what happened. He did not claim at all to know "exactly" what happened; and even then, had he done so, it would have been accurate.

Its pretty likely that Palpatine had some sort of source that confirmed Padmes fate for him; he might even have just sensed her fate through the Force. Lying about that with absolutely zero knowledge would have been dumb as hell since if she was alive what would that have gained him? The most probable explanation by far is that he really did somehow know she was dead and really did think that Vader killed her in anger (which is mostly correct). Nowhere in the movies is it ever said that he lied to Vader- it is pure Fanon.

Like I said the "it seems" refers to Vader being responsible not Padme being dead (at least that is my read of the conversation). As in "She is definitely dead, it seems you killed her." My take is if Palpatine had meant to imply any doubt about her being dead he would have said something like "It seems she is dead." There is no doubt she is dead, there is doubt about whether he killed her (well not really just enough to twist the knife with that little bit of uncertainty).

First I said maybe Palpatine had no evidence, seems way more likely he had at least a little, however if he really had no info he could just kill her if she was still alive, if Palpatine wants you dead your as good as dead, so not really a lie...

Second, there is some ambiguity but to me the scene reads as Palpatine acting all knowing when in fact he knows (as opposed to suspects, intuits, has indications etc.) far less than he pretends. How much less, hard to say, but to me context suggests something less. Filmakers want the scene to be brief and punchy so you can't bog it down giving all the explicit qualifications, but that is the way it reads to me.

Just what I mean by context. The movie does not show Palpatine seeing Padme on Mustafar, it does not show him getting any kind of report from his spies, having a moment of Force prescience etc. It could just be brevity, but I think it implies something about what Palpatine didn't know.

At most what I admit is there is an interpretation of the scene where Palpatine is just saying what he knows and with the appropriate amount of confidence (and presumably this is how he discusses the matter in future, so Vader is surprised when Luke shows up). But I don't see any reason to take that interpretation as more reasonable then ones where he is pretending to know more than he does (lying about how much he knows).

[ORCACommander]

at least 2 days on cloud city, why? there was time for lei to be given an expensive tailored outfit

[Fixer]

The Falcon lands at Sunset, we see them again at dawn when they've put on some new clothes and Chewie has found the blasted pieces of threepio. Then jail. Then it's sunset again when they escape cloud city. So at least 2 days, but we don't have any idea how long they were stuck in prison for.

Depending on how long a Bespin day is of course. I'm sure Wookieepedia has an article detailing it but I expect that wasn't considered when writing the script

[GandALF]

According to the Essential Atlas:

• A Bespin day is 12 hours.
  
  The Falcon takes weeks to travel the incredibly short distance to Bespin because of its terrible backup hyperdrive and the fact that its moving along the obscure Ison corridor.
  
  Luke travels around 24000 light years rather quickly using the major hyperspace routes.

So 30-40 hours seems about right.

[Fixer]

Outside of the specifics Empire Strikes Back does manage to keep the passage of time well and there's enough leeway between scene changes that Luke's time on Dagobah doesn't become a plothole.

It's all constructed very well and very tightly scripted. Luke's lessons show a clear progression and his learning of the nuance of the force is something that is passed onto the audience as well. His failure in the cave shows that the battle against evil is not just from without but within and plays into the final revelation at the end.

The contributions of the actors to their parts and dialogue as well, understanding who they were and how they would act. From Han Solo's famous ad libbed "I know" from Harrison Ford, to Julian Glover's suggestion in changing General Veers from a cowering man in the script to a hardened officer that you would expect to lead men on the battlefield.

All of this helped made this fictional setting feel so much more like a real, living and breathing universe despite it's science fantasy premise.

[bronnt]

Julian Glover's suggestion in changing General Veers from a cowering man in the script to a hardened officer that you would expect to lead men on the battlefield.

I didn't know about this detail. It makes me hate "The Last Jedi" even more, where no less a person than Mark Hamil thought his character was written completely wrong and his objections were ignored. I always thought Veers performed well in his two (wait, three?) scenes, though my favorite dark horse performance was Admiral Piett.

[soob]

Y'all have Ozzel wrong. He's the bridge between the first movie (where Vader is overtly disliked and ultimately subordinate to the military) and the sequels, where Vader is unleashed after the disaster and jumps the chain of command through fear and murder.

It seems to me that Ozzel wasn't so much incompetent as resisting orders. Presumably the super star destroyer is (was) his, and Ozzel feels like he's humoring some "Lord" from the emperor's inner circle, chasing a small band of rebels to settle a personal vendetta. Compare Ozzel's attitude to the attitude of the officers from the original star wars. They don't like Vader; they think he's a "sorcerer" and a petty thug. Also, if you watch carefully, you'll see that before Ozzel's murder, Vader gives orders, but everyone looks to Ozzel before actually following them. Think Vader didn't notice that?

And the idea that Ozzel makes a mistake strikes me as very wrong; the rebels knew about the impending attack because they saw the probe droid. Ozzel knew that and decided to pounce as quickly as possible to give them less time to prepare. That's the right move, and surely Vader knew that, but he couldn't pass on the pretext to murder his rival. Then he puts the sycophant Piett in charge, who ends up failing at everything he attempts for the rest of the trilogy. Think about Endor -- think Ozzel would have just sat there waiting for orders that never came because his boss was too busy to give the order to attack?

[Fianna]

I love that one officer who announces he'll inform Lord Vader personally about their failure to catch the Millennium Falcon and take full responsibility. That is bravest son of a bitch in the whole Star Wars franchise.

[Deledrius]

Or else that was a "if you don't see me again after this moment, you'll know exactly why" announcement. No rumors about him transferring to another assignment will be possible.

[Fixer]

Y'all have Ozzel wrong. He's the bridge between the first movie (where Vader is overtly disliked and ultimately subordinate to the military) and the sequels, where Vader is unleashed after the disaster and jumps the chain of command through fear and murder.

It seems to me that Ozzel wasn't so much incompetent as resisting orders. Presumably the super star destroyer is (was) his, and Ozzel feels like he's humoring some "Lord" from the emperor's inner circle, chasing a small band of rebels to settle a personal vendetta. Compare Ozzel's attitude to the attitude of the officers from the original star wars. They don't like Vader; they think he's a "sorcerer" and a petty thug. Also, if you watch carefully, you'll see that before Ozzel's murder, Vader gives orders, but everyone looks to Ozzel before actually following them. Think Vader didn't notice that?

And the idea that Ozzel makes a mistake strikes me as very wrong; the rebels knew about the impending attack because they saw the probe droid. Ozzel knew that and decided to pounce as quickly as possible to give them less time to prepare. That's the right move, and surely Vader knew that, but he couldn't pass on the pretext to murder his rival. Then he puts the sycophant Piett in charge, who ends up failing at everything he attempts for the rest of the trilogy. Think about Endor -- think Ozzel would have just sat there waiting for orders that never came because his boss was too busy to give the order to attack?

No, Ozzel was incompetent. He didn't follow up the lead to the power generator despite it being the best lead the Empire had. One that was only followed because Vader overheard Piett's announcements and arguments. When he jumped into the system the Rebels were preparing for evacuation but they only detected the ships and raised the planetary shields as a result.

The Hoth system had a huge number of asteroids in system which made it hard to detect incoming ships. Ozzel first failed to recognise the huge power generator that would be vital for a rebel defence and then alerted the Rebels to the Empire's presence allowing them to raise their defences. A totally worth force choking earned there.

Fun anecdote. Met Admiral Ozzel once. I was at Salute just after the turn of the millennium and joined in a Star Wars RPG game there. What I hadn't realised was that Michael Sheard was a special guest at the event and mid game he came through the door behind us and asked "am I dead yet?" In his recognisable old schoolteacher voice.