Dragon Age II: EA boogaloo

[name_here]

What got me about Anders was that in my playthrough he ended up, possibly due to a bug, becoming the very incarnation of Hawke's choices not mattering. See, when he first flipped out and called up Vengence, I told him to leave the city and never come back on pain of death. Then come Act 3 with the kidnapping, and who did they kidnap? Anders. Presumably because all the other possible kidnapping victims were either in my party, vanished, or dead. So I had to go there, rescue him, and then just kinda let him wander off and not make with the stabbing for having returned to the city (of his own volition; he'd been putting out propaganda pamphlets for a while before being kidnapped).

[Independent George]

But you know what the worst part about Anders in DA2 is originally his role would have been filled by Velanna and once you know that a billion puzzle pieces just fall into place. The overreaction to every minor injustice, being a jerk to anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you in every minor way and being so filled with hate that they turned Justice into a spirit of Vengeance everything about Anders makes so much more sense when you replace him with Velanna.

I did not know that and had never even heard of that, but it makes so much sense my brain hurts. Was the actress not available to record? Velanna fits perfectly.

[chaos42]

i actually liked the part with the dark spawn magister though one thing that i wish is that people would look at all the evidence of what we are seeing. There is a decided lack of any proof that there is a maker in these games and it is increasingly obvious that its magic of either humans or elves just very advance and so old we don't understand. compounded by historical revision and other factors that all we can say is that one the blite started and two some mages where involved. I seriously hope that the next game gives us some facts of whats going on

[CharlesPhipps]

i actually liked the part with the dark spawn magister though one thing that i wish is that people would look at all the evidence of what we are seeing. There is a decided lack of any proof that there is a maker in these games and it is increasingly obvious that its magic of either humans or elves just very advance and so old we don't understand. compounded by historical revision and other factors that all we can say is that one the blite started and two some mages where involved. I seriously hope that the next game gives us some facts of whats going on

Part of what makes Dragon Age's religion actually interesting is the fact that it genuinely depends on faith in order to have any sort of value. In the Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance (at least after the War of the Lance), it's not an issue of faith but just transactionalism and ideology. You worship Torm because it gets you out of the Wall of the Faithless and you believe in Lawful Goodness.

In Thedas, you worship the Maker because you believe not because you've seen miracles.

It led to an interesting choice where my wizardquisitor decided, "You know, I *DO* believe I'm the Chosen of Andraste."

It was doubly funny because if you say that to Corphyeus in the final battle, he gives a look that you've lost your mind.

[AlucardNoir]

Guys, guys, are we forgetting Dragon Age Inquisition?

My personal head cannon is that there were originally two worlds, the world of humans and that of the fade. Titans either were native to the human world or came here first. Elves were nothing more then fade spirits and that at one point, in imitation of the mortal world ascended to live in a elf made sun - the golden city.

Why do I believe this? because Elgar'nan, the leader of the elven "gods" is believed to have defeated his father the sun - and yet he, his family, his allies and his servants all left and made their own city [presumably with blackjack and hookers] - and the sun is, at least in our world represented by gold. Secondly, we know Solas Fen'Harel was one of the only elven "gods" not to use the vallasllin to take power from his servants and that Morigans mother was possessed by Elgar'nan wife Mythal. Oh, and we also know Solas with the help of the Forgotten ones -that he tricked - made the vail.

Now, we know that the wicked witch of the delta quadrant could turn into a high dragon, we know that Morigan found out that Mythal's well could give that ability to others and that the only High Dragons that can speak are the Old Dragons of the Tavinter, Morigan and Mythal and those that used her well.

How does that relate? thus: my head cannon is that the lesser fade spirits remained on the "land" of the fade while the ancestors of the Elves made their own fade sun - the golden city. The lesser fade spirits that remained on the fade started influencing mortals, the lesser ones becoming the guiding spirits of the Chasind while the more powerful ones, the ones that were comparable to the elves in power becoming the Old Gods of the Tavinter - remember, the ancient Tavinter thought that their old gods had their home in the fade. Elgar'nan then rebelled against his father, the ruler of the golden city but didn't win, he fled from the golden city and made his own city in the "human world" in Elvhenan. Then Fen'Harel, who was presumably a bastard born to one of the former golden city elves and one of the lower fade spirits that had stayed on the Fade tricked both the Forgotten ones/Tavinter Old Gods and the Elven Gods of Elvhenan that were using the vallsllin to abuse the other elves and made the veil. The Forgotten ones/Tavinter Old Gods/ Archdemons god banished from the fade, the Elven Gods god banished to the fade. Since the Elven gods were using the vallsllin to take power from their "lessers", when their gods were banished to the fade the elves had to give so much of themselves that they lost their immortality, that or Elgar'nan led the elven gods against his father a second time and the reason the Golden city is black is because of what they did there (Mythal/Flemeth does seem to be looking for a way to get vengeance for what happened to her beloved - if that beloved was Flemeth's original love or Elgar'nan is left ambiguous). When the Old gods found out they were locked from the fade they tried contacting Solas via the Elves through their human servants - the result was the Tavinter - Elvhenan war. When they had conquered the elves and knew Solas was not to be found they tried to go to the fade by themselves. Blood magic is said to be taught to mortals by fade spirits yet it wasn't fade spirits and fade demons that taught the Tavinter mages the blood magic ritual to open a gate to the golden city, it was the Tavinter Old godd/ high dragons that can communicate.

Then we have a Chasind witch that makes a contract with the spirit of Mythal. Thus giving credence to my believe that the Elven gods got banished to the fade and lost their corporeal form. We have the Tavinter Old Gods and Flemeth as the only ones that have the form of high dragons but can communicate in that form - something no "normal" high dragon can do. Then we have the way the Old gods just ran away from the blight and hid underneath despite the tare through the veil having been opened at their request and in a manner of their design. And finally, we have the complete and utter absence of an actual Maker from the games and Solas, despite having lived for so many eons not knowing of any such entity.

If I was a betting man I'd bet there was no Maker and that whatever happened to Andraste has nothing to do with any Maker, at least not one as described by the Chantry.

[CharlesPhipps]

My view is the simpler that the Old Gods and Elven Gods are the same species.

Very big spirits.

[Independent George]

Is there a consistent theology in DA:I between the Fade, Corypheus, the Golden City, and the Maker & Andraste? I haven't played DA:I (or Legacy for that matter), so I'm asking based almost entirely on what we saw in Origins and Awakening.

We know that Andraste was real, she did have (possibly divine) powers to the point where even her ashes could heal. The entire religion of the Chantry stems from Andraste, and everything in the tomb points to her being truly a prophet of the Maker - is there anything that links her to what we learn from Corypheus? Could she have been possessed by a particularly powerful fade spirit that granted her those powers? Could those spirits have remained after her death and guarded her tomb like we saw in DA:O?

[CharlesPhipps]

Is there a consistent theology in DA:I between the Fade, Corypheus, the Golden City, and the Maker & Andraste? I haven't played DA:I (or Legacy for that matter), so I'm asking based almost entirely on what we saw in Origins and Awakening.

We know that Andraste was real, she did have (possibly divine) powers to the point where even her ashes could heal. The entire religion of the Chantry stems from Andraste, and everything in the tomb points to her being truly a prophet of the Maker - is there anything that links her to what we learn from Corypheus? Could she have been possessed by a particularly powerful fade spirit that granted her those powers? Could those spirits have remained after her death and guarded her tomb like we saw in DA:O?

Ehhhhhh...

The thing is complicated by the fact that Spirits impersonate religious figures. In Inquisition, you meet a Faith Spirit which looks, acts, and behaves like the late Divine. Is it actually Justinia? Or is it just a spirit impersonating them? In the Hall of Sacred Ashes, you can meet the ghosts of people who turn out to still be alive which means they're NOT ghosts.

It's also a mountain full of lyrium.

There's also a book which speculates that Andraste was actually a very powerful mage.

[GandALF]

Come on, think about it!

The Chantry says Andraste was a warrior, but a book says she was a mage.

When I played DA2, Hawke was a male warrior, but when Chuck plays DA2 Hawke is a female rouge. Which one is true!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

If you're playing a virtuous warden fighting the darkspawn (sin incarnate) then of course acquiring the ashes of Andraste (the redeemer) would be a sign of having the Maker's favour.

If you're playing a ruthless blood mage however...

[CharlesPhipps]

FYI -

Chuck's distaste for Dragon Age 2 (and Knights of the Fallen Empire) is something I disagree with because he has a problem with the story because it's too "on the rails." However, I think that in the case of DA2, a large part of the game is the fact that Hawke is trying to put out fires as well as fight against institutionalized evils.

His inability to change things is part of the narrative.