chaos42 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:18 amim just saying that there could be something more to this. some story that we haven't really seen that could be done, with discovery currently out and a much less idealistic story being created this kind of thing a man driven to madness by other factors could be interesting
While possible, it's also a story that I happen to think actually doesn't do a very good of portraying Starfleet. You have the equivalent of a disgruntled employee who is going to destroy his boss by faking his own death and presumably abandoning his daughter as well as life in the military. Really, the parts I'm confused by are what he intended next? Steal a bunch of Federation codes and flee to the Orion Syndicate? Klingons?
How did Starfleet miss that he was the worst of Starfleet rather than the best?
The sad fact is that bad as the guy is, he's pretty damn far from the worst of Starfleet. That honor would probably go to the guy who turned a primitive world into a recreation of Nazi Germany.
J!! wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:48 am
The sad fact is that bad as the guy is, he's pretty damn far from the worst of Starfleet. That honor would probably go to the guy who turned a primitive world into a recreation of Nazi Germany.
I'm torn between that guy just being a really crappy historian, a 23rd century version of David Irving, or Kirk just really really underestimated that guy and what he actually was was a tin pot dictator who set himself up as king of a primitive world.
None of which is necessarily contradictory.
I wonder if SF Debris is still taking TOS requests as I'll happily buy a Patterns of Force review.
CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:14 pm
Maybe Data just didn't feel ready to take the test himself yet. I mean he certainly would not get the benefit of Riker kinda hinting how to beat it, that is fer shure. Data does have self-esteem issues in trying to work out how ready he is for things, or how well he understands situations, so I believe that he was putting it off. Bev and Troi wanted to move on, Data just didn't. I feel Data is much harder on himself than he deserves, but that is characterisation. Plus as far as he knows he is functionally immortal so he doesn't have to rush his career. Star Fleet doesn't have an up or out policy, so you get to spend as much time in role as you feel you need or want (most of the time, assuming no wars with shapeshifters interrupting your botany work).
I think this is a misinterpretation of what the test is. It's not a test to achieve the rank of commander. It's a "bridge officer" test, which apparently allows someone to be put in command of the ship. Data almost certainly has taken the test since we'd previously seen him put in command. Likewise, Geordi had been left in command as Lieutenant, same as Sulu TOS. This goes to the "tactical command" mentioned in a previous post. It's most likely that Troi simply had to complete some requirement to qualify for promotion to Commander, not specifically this test. It was more a coincidence than a direct correlation to this test.
Alternately, this is something a Medical specialist needs to take to be allowed command, rather than a command or operations officer.
CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:14 pm
Maybe Data just didn't feel ready to take the test himself yet. I mean he certainly would not get the benefit of Riker kinda hinting how to beat it, that is fer shure. Data does have self-esteem issues in trying to work out how ready he is for things, or how well he understands situations, so I believe that he was putting it off. Bev and Troi wanted to move on, Data just didn't. I feel Data is much harder on himself than he deserves, but that is characterisation. Plus as far as he knows he is functionally immortal so he doesn't have to rush his career. Star Fleet doesn't have an up or out policy, so you get to spend as much time in role as you feel you need or want (most of the time, assuming no wars with shapeshifters interrupting your botany work).
I think this is a misinterpretation of what the test is. It's not a test to achieve the rank of commander. It's a "bridge officer" test, which apparently allows someone to be put in command of the ship. Data almost certainly has taken the test since we'd previously seen him put in command. Likewise, Geordi had been left in command as Lieutenant, same as Sulu TOS. This goes to the "tactical command" mentioned in a previous post. It's most likely that Troi simply had to complete some requirement to qualify for promotion to Commander, not specifically this test. It was more a coincidence than a direct correlation to this test.
Alternately, this is something a Medical specialist needs to take to be allowed command, rather than a command or operations officer.
still i don't think that data should be out ranked by a person who for most of star trek tng didn't do a lot except be the cheese cake. Im sorry but troi is not a good character, its bad writing but still data would most certainly be more qualified.
This goes back to my point though how exactly do these things work because ive had plenty of experience with less qualified people being promoted over me. Its a real problem a more qualified person is passed over because the job is something that not as easy to replace. plus there is also people playing favorites. people who are friends with the managers get the promotion and it turns into a clique like in high school. If your not in their group your not considered because their irrational.
The problem with SF and military ranks is that no SF writer ever does them justice. No, not even Yoshiki Tanaka. Thing is, in the real world, for example, a carrier has an admiral on board, it also has a commander for the flight squadrons. Both of those will not only never actually run the aircraft carrier they're on but, and this is important, won't even be on the bridge of the ship when the ship is in combat, they'll be in their own command rooms, one commanding the whole carrier group and the other the flight squadrons attached to this specific carrier. Oh, they might visit the ships bridge, but they ill definitively not command a fleet from there.
In SF things are somewhat different. Not only do we have shows like Star Trek or Legend of the Galactic heroes that give us the impression all high ranking officers on board a ship command from the bridge of the ship, but you sometimes get idea that the admiral can actually command the ship he's on directly, in place of the captain.
As for ranks, a rank isn't a commission. Beverly Crusher is a commander, same rank as William T. Riker. But, and this is important, she's a doctor, the only time she'd ever receive a commission - at least in the real world - would be if it was for a medical base, a medical research base, a hospital ship or, if everybody on the bridge was dead and she was the highest ranking officer on board - but in that case there are a lot more problems to take care of then finding the officer who's supposed to be in charge.
Now, if you have a problem with my arguments, I'd like you to just google whatever military structure your country has. I'm certain you will find quite a few colonels,commodores and the like being in charge of military hospitals, people that have never, and will never actually command a ship, or a few tens of thousands of men into battle. This isn't to say a General in charge of the military hospital network of a country isn't instructed on how to lead people and on basic strategy and the like - but he's a doctor, he's there to put soldiers back together, leading them into battle, crafting the battle plan and other stuff generally associated with strategy and tactical operations and the like, well, literally no one - them included - would want that to ever happen. Their ranks are there to give them the authority to run said hospitals, hospital ships and the like, but they aren't general staff material... I mean, they are, in their own narrow and extremely useful field, but they don't "generalize" very well. There's a reason we never had a doctor conquer the whole known world or lead an army as a 5 star general, or Grand Marshal, or grand/fleet Admiral or anything of that sort. When you spend 12 years learning how to be a great doctor well, that's 12 years you haven't spent learning how to better place your troops in order to kill the enemy more efficiently.
If Chuck or a mod reads this feel free do delete my account. I would do it myself but I don't seem to be able to find a delete account option. phpBB should have such an option but I guess this isn't stock phpBB.
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:29 pmThe idea of a heartbeat giving away someone when there have to be pumps and other mechanical devices going on even after they turn off the engines never made sense to me, even as a kid.
Yeah, I mean: Didn't they have self-flushing urinals and such that periodically flush themselves, and other noise-making conveniences?
And even if you could "cancel-out" everyone's heartbeats - what about, the sound of, e.g., intestinal gases and such?
