Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

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Deledrius
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by Deledrius »

bronnt wrote:Also, Jadzia is quite clearly playing for latinum when she plays Tongo. Even if you assume that she won everything she's shown to be gambling with, she had to start with some of it in order to get into the game.
It wouldn't surprise me to learn she conned/seduced a Ferengi for ante once and used it as her seed money. She's not above that, and the rest of them would probably respect her for the cunning.
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Asvarduil
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by Asvarduil »

SlackerinDeNile wrote:Quark doesn't have to pay taxes and gets free energy and maintenance from the Federation, Sisko brought it up in the trade union episode.

Also I presume Starfleet gives its officers on DS9 some kind of latinum allowance seeing as they often gamble with it.
I think that's too convoluted of an answer, and not in character for Starfleet.

Instead, I think that the way Starfleet personnel get bars of Latinum, is by bartering. The Ferengi love plying a good deal, and Starfleet literally has a presence in two quadrants. I suspect that Redshirt survives a tour, gets goodies, gets assigned to DS9, trades goody for Latinum (probably with the Ferengi getting a rather competitive deal, because the Federation has apparently abandoned both money and the idea of value of an item), Redshirt gambles using Latinum for trade for other things.

Pretty much, the Ferengi have succeded at Making Money Great Again in the 24th Century. Bully for them!
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FaxModem1
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by FaxModem1 »

The Federation does have money. Dr. Crusher bought fabric at Farpoint station, so unless she's pulling a con, she was intending to pay for it. Jake couldn't buy a present for his Dad because he didn't have an allowance, and wasn't working for the Federation News Service yet. This is the same kid who thought going week without a replicator was roughing it.

We have proof of private property and money in Federation territory:

Dytallix Mining Company A company responsible for mining a few planets in the Federation.
Bank of Bolias: An actual bank that has had heists within it, bank accounts, and property held within it by planets and economies.
Kasidy Yates Interstellar Freights: Kasidy's freight company that moves freight from Point A to Point B.

Earth may not have money, but it does seem that the rest of the Federation does. Mostly because so many services are covered that it seems crazy to have a lot of money on you. Think of it as the napkin or water principle in restaurants. Charging for either seems crazy for owners and patrons, and is just considered gratis by the establishment.

Now think about being in the middle of nowhere where they do charge for such things, mostly because it's out of the way and the charge to ship things out there, or because they're trying to squeeze water out of a stone and get you for every penny you have.

That's the difference between Earth and DS9.
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SuccubusYuri
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by SuccubusYuri »

It would seem likely that, the Federation acts a sole economic entity, at least on behalf of its personnel. An establishment like Quark's probably operates by just running a tab that it lumps under "Federation" and he gets reimbursed by Starfleet, if there just isn't a salary doled out to personnel who might need it locally.

Barring that, even if you're a true-blue "post scarcity" purist, well, clearly other economies don't operate on the principle, so it's really fucking easy to basically print currency when you find someone who wants to make a deal (I mean in terms of, "Self sealing stembolts don't cost rations in the Federation, let me handle that for you.")
Darth Wedgius
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by Darth Wedgius »

I had a weird thought. In a post-scarcity society, what's a fine? The latest STD review discussion got me thinking that killing a member of a Starfleet command crew might be a lesser charge, on the grounds that they're often fine by the end of the episode anyway. That one's probably still be a felony, but what about that guy who just refuses to clean up after his tribble? Does he spend a couple days of community service? Get psychotecnic treatments? Are the food replicators all going to give him bread and water for a few days?
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Robovski
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by Robovski »

You can create humane restrictions like you describe. Required counselling comes to mind too, or house arrest (you can certainly restrict liberty) or even confinement. You can also discharge Starfleet members who will not get on board with protocol behavior, but for just Citizens they could be barred from locations or services for a period of time or until such and such shows reform from the subject.

Maybe you could even expel (banish) them from the Federation or assign them to a colony. Depends on how authoritarian and harsh the Federation really is.
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Madner Kami
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by Madner Kami »

Nobody in the Federation does anything wrong, ever. We are evolved beings who adhere to a stricter moral notion of things and we obey the law in all things. But why are we talking about such things, which we shouldn't mind about, as they are not happening in the first place. Have you eaten your aloted morning specially prepared and personalized replicator-ration already, citizen? Did you like it? Here, let me tell the central computer to add some special seasoning to it, I am certain you'll enjoy your more flavoury meal tomorrow.
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
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cilantro
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by cilantro »

Imperator-zor wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:30 am This is something that bothered me...
  • FACT 1: The Federation in the DS9 Era was expressly and repeatedly stated to have abandoned money in favor of the Federation's techno-socialist economy.
  • FACT 2: The Ferengi Alliance is a society who's hat his capitalism and a drive to obtain profit. Quark is a traditionalist in this regard.
  • FACT 3: Miles O'Brien and the other starfleet guys on Deep Space Nine routinely go to Quarks to buy drinks, use the Holosuites and whatnot.
Here's the sticking point: why would Quark give Miles O'Brien drinks and whatnot when he has no means to pay?

Zor

Wasn't it explain in the show that the Federation (or even Sisko) had a "deal" with Quark? Something like all of their members got to drink for free and use the holosuit and they allow Quark to do his things unnoticed and/or Sisko gave Quark some latinum/gold/maintenance for his troubles every so often? I mean sure Odo was always up in his business but I always thought that Odo wasn't in the Federation so he probably had to pay for his drinks but he hated Quark and Quark hated him, so Odo probably never (or rarely) drank at his bar?
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FaxModem1
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Re: Miles O'Brien's Bar Tab

Post by FaxModem1 »

Madner Kami wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:25 am Nobody in the Federation does anything wrong, ever. We are evolved beings who adhere to a stricter moral notion of things and we obey the law in all things. But why are we talking about such things, which we shouldn't mind about, as they are not happening in the first place. Have you eaten your aloted morning specially prepared and personalized replicator-ration already, citizen? Did you like it? Here, let me tell the central computer to add some special seasoning to it, I am certain you'll enjoy your more flavoury meal tomorrow.
Tom Paris and those at the New Zealand penal colony would like a word with you.
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