Voyager: 11:59

[FaxModem1]

I'm just glad to see that an american midwestern town in late 2000 is doing so well just a year after the Eugenics Wars!

That might be why their town is failing and needs corporate investment.

[BlackoutCreature2]

I'm just glad to see that an american midwestern town in late 2000 is doing so well just a year after the Eugenics Wars!

I think at this point it is safe to say that the Eugenics War did not directly affect the United States.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Chuck drives the anal-retentive corner of my brain a little crazy when he doesn't leave a rating.

Not really seeing the age deal either. In fact it's good when an episode establishes some unique details that aren't the focus of the episode, like things go in real life, as opposed to regressing to the mean every time.

I'm not really crazy about the episode itself though. I like off-beat episodes in general, but if you're going to do what's basically a non-sci-fi story centered around different characters, then it better be a story that's actually worth going well out of your way to tell. And this story is really just not worth it. Production-wise it might be good Voyager, but I really don't see anything special or noteworthy about it otherwise.

[Riedquat]

Can lack of computer security be an inherited trait? The kid seems to have no trouble playing around with Janeway ancestor's laptop, and we all know what security on Voyager means.

[Koshundheit]

The problem is that it simply isn't a story about the characters of the show, it's a completely different one shoehorned into a Voyager episode. That's probably why the mention of Carbon Creek (the different time part being incidental). I suppose you can make a story based on a character's ancestors and how that influenced them, changing with new information, but it's the character we know who should be the focus not the past story.

Agreed. If I watch a show, and you drop a completely different show into the show's place, even with the same actors, it had better be genius or the natural score hit from not showing a new episode of the show I tuned in for will leave it with a zero score in my book. It can be even worse than doing a clip show, because if the clip show adds a bit if new plot and character work and shows scenes from the show I really like, even if not ideal at least that's the right show. 'Far Beyond the Stars' is an example of doing a show within a show that is good enough I didn't mind. This is no 'Far Beyond the Stars'. Not sure if others use this term, but I call this type of show, at least when poorly done, actor service. If you do something because it was a fun change of pace for the actor(s), without regard for making a meh or worse show for the fans, it seems to fit. As Chuck noted it is just unfortunate that this weak story was the rare chance for Mulgrew to have a less hardened / exaggerated character to play.

I hated 11:59 the first time I saw it when it was a surprise. Have rewatched it once and it was no better. The review didn't make me realize I'd let something great pass over my head, so still on my don't watch list. Of course quite a few episodes of Voyager are on that list. It's going to be tricky when a friend and I get around to watching it, since he's not seen any Voyager. I don't want to leave out anything important, but I can't see sitting through this, Threshold, and so many more.

[Trinary]

I was amused by this, as for once, it seems that Neelix was even dumber than SF gave him credit for. Or the writers.

Unfortunately, it does not prove Neelix is dumb, just credulous. Neelix has no knowledge of Earth except what he gets from the crew and the ship's archives. Their records on the Great Wall must include that old chestnut about the Wall being visible from space without correction.

Oh my god, you're right! That makes it even WORSE!

[bronnt]

Agreed. If I watch a show, and you drop a completely different show into the show's place, even with the same actors, it had better be genius or the natural score hit from not showing a new episode of the show I tuned in for will leave it with a zero score in my book. It can be even worse than doing a clip show, because if the clip show adds a bit if new plot and character work and shows scenes from the show I really like, even if not ideal at least that's the right show. 'Far Beyond the Stars' is an example of doing a show within a show that is good enough I didn't mind. This is no 'Far Beyond the Stars'. Not sure if others use this term, but I call this type of show, at least when poorly done, actor service. If you do something because it was a fun change of pace for the actor(s), without regard for making a meh or worse show for the fans, it seems to fit. As Chuck noted it is just unfortunate that this weak story was the rare chance for Mulgrew to have a less hardened / exaggerated character to play.

It's funny, I found this episode pleasant enough to watch and never really cared for "Far Beyond the Stars." The connection to the main plot in that episode was very flimsy: it was basically, "Sisko is hallucinating."

At least "11:59" established a reason for our characters to care about the characters in this story, and it was established as being canon with the universe. These events actually happened, while Benny Russel may or may not have existed. "11:59" is still weak since, as I've said, it's a non-sequitor that pretends we have established characters when we really don't, but they're still doing things within the episode.

[Robovski]

I was amused by this, as for once, it seems that Neelix was even dumber than SF gave him credit for. Or the writers.

Unfortunately, it does not prove Neelix is dumb, just credulous. Neelix has no knowledge of Earth except what he gets from the crew and the ship's archives. Their records on the Great Wall must include that old chestnut about the Wall being visible from space without correction.

Oh my god, you're right! That makes it even WORSE!

This is canon so we need to make this work. Theory: as part of the Eugenics Wars (and reasoning lost in such) the Great Wall was covered in highly reflective material and light beacons to make it the single brightest thing in it's hemisphere; the light blotting out even the light from great cities at night and is visible during the day.

[Trinary]

I was amused by this, as for once, it seems that Neelix was even dumber than SF gave him credit for. Or the writers.

Unfortunately, it does not prove Neelix is dumb, just credulous. Neelix has no knowledge of Earth except what he gets from the crew and the ship's archives. Their records on the Great Wall must include that old chestnut about the Wall being visible from space without correction.

Oh my god, you're right! That makes it even WORSE!

This is canon so we need to make this work. Theory: as part of the Eugenics Wars (and reasoning lost in such) the Great Wall was covered in highly reflective material and light beacons to make it the single brightest thing in it's hemisphere; the light blotting out even the light from great cities at night and is visible during the day.

I would've just said it was because of magnets. And quantum. That explains everything!

[clearspira]

I'm just glad to see that an american midwestern town in late 2000 is doing so well just a year after the Eugenics Wars!

I think at this point it is safe to say that the Eugenics War did not directly affect the United States.

It definitely helps that no specific countries were given for the war back in TOS, so we can easily say that it was Middle Eastern. Where, lets face it, most of humanity's wars have happened post Cold War. May even have helped lead to the Eastern Coalition mentioned in First Contact.