Voyager: 11:59

[Koshundheit]

It's funny, I found this episode pleasant enough to watch and never really cared for "Far Beyond the Stars." The connection to the main plot in that episode was very flimsy: it was basically, "Sisko is hallucinating."

At least "11:59" established a reason for our characters to care about the characters in this story, and it was established as being canon with the universe. These events actually happened, while Benny Russel may or may not have existed. "11:59" is still weak since, as I've said, it's a non-sequitor that pretends we have established characters when we really don't, but they're still doing things within the episode.

'Far Beyond the Stars' wasn't my favorite episode, but it was enjoyable. It didn't matter to me that the story might not have been events that happened for 'real'. Yes, it was fictional. All of it is fictional since they're all made up stories, but it was entertaining and enjoyable and even meaningful to me. '11:59' just wasn't any of those things for me, with the only thing that was enjoyable being Mulgrew playing a different character. Your mileage may vary of course, and I'm glad you enjoyed '11:59'.

[bronnt]

'Far Beyond the Stars' wasn't my favorite episode, but it was enjoyable. It didn't matter to me that the story might not have been events that happened for 'real'. Yes, it was fictional. All of it is fictional since they're all made up stories, but it was entertaining and enjoyable and even meaningful to me. '11:59' just wasn't any of those things for me, with the only thing that was enjoyable being Mulgrew playing a different character. Your mileage may vary of course, and I'm glad you enjoyed '11:59'.

I think it's also a case of what the two different shows were. Like, Deep Space 9 was full of enjoyable and interesting characters, so I'm annoyed by watching an episode that isn't about them. Voyager is full of mostly bland, generic, and sometimes annoying characters, so the fact that we're getting away from them for a bit isn't too bad.

[Fianna]

Re: The Great Wall of China:

According to NASA's website, you can see the Great Wall from space. However, since it's mostly the same color and texture as the ground surrounding it, that can make it hard to pick out.

[bluebydefault]

I like when tv shows do take kind of a risk and get out of their wheel house some. Thats what I think of this episode. Kate Mulgrew and the love interest actor had chemistry but yea he was pretty old and the son was really young too. Like the kid should have been his grandson.

I think the only thing I didn't like was that she seemed snotty that her ancestor wasn't what she thought. It might have been nicer for her to find really appreciate her past more.

[clearspira]

I like when tv shows do take kind of a risk and get out of their wheel house some. Thats what I think of this episode. Kate Mulgrew and the love interest actor had chemistry but yea he was pretty old and the son was really young too. Like the kid should have been his grandson.

I think the only thing I didn't like was that she seemed snotty that her ancestor wasn't what she thought. It might have been nicer for her to find really appreciate her past more.

People give Chuck stick for his over the top Parody Janeway character, but so often she is the only way to explain away Canon Janeway's actions. Imagine if this was you, would you honestly be that bothered over an ancestor that lived three hundred years before you were even born? By our standards, we're talking 17th to 18th century depending on how old you are. Its absurd.
For Parody Janeway on the other hand though, it makes perfect sense that she would be ashamed by an ancestor that wasn't awesome because she is a narcissist and thus it taints her otherwise perfect blood.
There is a reason after all why Kate Mulgrew is on record as saying that she thought Janeway had some form of schizophrenia given how far her characterization bounced each week.

[CrypticMirror]

I like when tv shows do take kind of a risk and get out of their wheel house some. Thats what I think of this episode. Kate Mulgrew and the love interest actor had chemistry but yea he was pretty old and the son was really young too. Like the kid should have been his grandson.

I think the only thing I didn't like was that she seemed snotty that her ancestor wasn't what she thought. It might have been nicer for her to find really appreciate her past more.

People give Chuck stick for his over the top Parody Janeway character, but so often she is the only way to explain away Canon Janeway's actions. Imagine if this was you, would you honestly be that bothered over an ancestor that lived three hundred years before you were even born? By our standards, we're talking 17th to 18th century depending on how old you are. Its absurd. .

I dunno, there was some fairly important stuff happening in my country in that time period. I would be heartbroken to find out if any of my ancestors were on the wrong side of that. Of course, unlike Janeway, I don't go turning those rocks over to try and find out. It is more important that I have hope they were not on the wrong side, than it is for me to know for sure. Especially since, given the area my ancestors lived in there is at least a 50/50 chance of that. I'm fairly certain one branch of the family tree was on the right side, since they are old Highland families, but the lowland branch... It could go either way.

[bronnt]

People give Chuck stick for his over the top Parody Janeway character, but so often she is the only way to explain away Canon Janeway's actions. Imagine if this was you, would you honestly be that bothered over an ancestor that lived three hundred years before you were even born? By our standards, we're talking 17th to 18th century depending on how old you are. Its absurd.
For Parody Janeway on the other hand though, it makes perfect sense that she would be ashamed by an ancestor that wasn't awesome because she is a narcissist and thus it taints her otherwise perfect blood.
There is a reason after all why Kate Mulgrew is on record as saying that she thought Janeway had some form of schizophrenia given how far her characterization bounced each week.

It's the story that has value for her, not her relationship to the person per se. Take, for instance, the musical "Hamilton" which (from what I've heard) very much preaches a pro-immigration message, and if someone latched onto that message only to later learn that Hamilton was very ANTI-immigration, not to mention an elitist, they might be disappointed. It's not like it's a crushing blow, but learning that something you draw inspiration from is wrong might be upsetting.

[BlackoutCreature2]

I'm just glad to see that an american midwestern town in late 2000 is doing so well just a year after the Eugenics Wars!

I think at this point it is safe to say that the Eugenics War did not directly affect the United States.

It definitely helps that no specific countries were given for the war back in TOS, so we can easily say that it was Middle Eastern. Where, lets face it, most of humanity's wars have happened post Cold War. May even have helped lead to the Eastern Coalition mentioned in First Contact.

I always had this theory that Khan and his ilk mostly rose to power in poorer, less-developed and politically unstable areas like the Middle East, South Asia, the former Soviet Union, Africa, etc. and really never found any kind of foothold in more stable countries like the US, Western Europe, Japan, Australia, etc. Basically they took advantage of the chaos in a lot of parts of the world immediately after the Cold War.

This would partially be one of the causes of World War III, a growing resentment between the countries that had to directly fight the eugenic supermen and the countries that didn't. Eventually Russia and China pull out of the UN and form their own group, ECON, while the US and their allies form the New United Nations. These would be the main belligerents in WW3.

Of course after a couple of years of nuclear war both sides infrastructures fall apart and the world's telecommunication system collapses causing actual sides to get a lot murkier. Eventually the war dissolves into a series of unending skirmishes between any groups that are capable of pulling together a bunch of people with guns and some kind of shared philosophy and no central government really has the resources left to stop them.

But again, this is all my own fan theory, I don't know how much canon would support this.

[Seaward]

I think at this point it is safe to say that the Eugenics War did not directly affect the United States.

It definitely helps that no specific countries were given for the war back in TOS, so we can easily say that it was Middle Eastern. Where, lets face it, most of humanity's wars have happened post Cold War. May even have helped lead to the Eastern Coalition mentioned in First Contact.

Wasn't there a book or book series that retconned the Eugenics Wars as a series of shadowy black-ops/espionage based conflicts that mostly took place in Asia, outside of the public eye? Obviously non-canon, since that's just how the books work, but I'm sure that was a thing.

[Zoinksberg]

Wasn't there a book or book series that retconned the Eugenics Wars as a series of shadowy black-ops/espionage based conflicts that mostly took place in Asia, outside of the public eye? Obviously non-canon, since that's just how the books work, but I'm sure that was a thing.

That would be The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh by Greg Cox. Some of my favorite Trek books. Nicely combines real world events with Trek canon and characters.