Babylon 5: A Voice in the Wilderness

[Aotrs Commander]

Another I always liked.

I had wondered why Chuck hadn't used the Ivonava god speech, but ehre it was, in the stinger!


Londo's speech about the power of the hatred of the Narn struck a chord with me, I've alwys remembered that, since I can relate a bit, finding the line between temper and hatred rather thin...

[Enterprising]

I also saw a comment on a B5 con panel video (or it's this one I've linked) referencing a JMS interview where (according to the poster) JMS said that Jerry Doyle was always winding Michael O'Hare up to the point where his illness would flare up.

Now I can't say if that's true or false because the poster doesn't link to the interview in video or transcript form - if true, it does cast a shade over Doyle.

I heard about that, I've read quite a few transcripts from interviews with Jerry Doyle and he comes across as quite a naive and insensitive man. Despite his solid on-screen chemistry with O'Hare he really didn't get on well with him, he found O'Hare quite strange and irritating and didn't seem to realise that he was mentally ill and couldn't always help behaving the way he did.

Remember that no one other than JMS knew that O'Hare had an illness of any kind until after he died. Jerry Doyle was quite the perfectionist as an actor, and it's been verified from a few sources he took a guest B5 actor against a wall for not being prepared with their lines for the scenes. With O'Hare's erratic behaviour, Doyle probably thought O'Hare was goofing or just being an ass, & the wind-ups was probably his way of "getting him back" since he couldn't really do the same as he done with the guest actor.

Always wondered if Doyle's view of O'Hare changed once the truth became known. Was sad it got to the point he felt the need to refuse any scenes with O'Hare after season 1. Feels like someone cursed that cast with some real bad mojo, so many of them gone well before their time.

[Beastro]

I got a little creeped out by the hallucination talk. I couldn't help but think about what Michael O'Hare was going through at the time and we had no clue about.

It was a completely true story. One night my wife turned into a mass of tentacles, and I leapt out of the bed screaming. Fortunately I didn't wake her, she's a very deep sleeper. She once slept through a train derailment in front of our house.

I recall once when I my grandmother was young and in the hospital for something and the medication she was given caused her to hallucinate that the wall opposite to her was covered in spiders crawling around.

Nobly representing our family's stoic, rational British heritage as well our Canadian politeness, she waited until a nurse came by, then nicely and quietly asked her if the wall was covered in spiders, thanked her when the answer was no and focused on trying to calm down despite the hallucination not going away.

With O'Hare's erratic behaviour, Doyle probably thought O'Hare was goofing or just being an ass, & the wind-ups was probably his way of "getting him back" since he couldn't really do the same as he done with the guest actor.

He took a lot O'Hare's actions as him being a womanizing asshole, especially given that some of O'Hare's behaviour was towards Andrea Thompson who Doyle was in a relationship with and later married. I guess O'Hare preferred he be thought of that way than to set the record straight.

[CrypticMirror]

[Doyle] took a lot O'Hare's actions as him being a womanizing asshole, especially given that some of O'Hare's behaviour was towards Andrea Thompson who Doyle was in a relationship with and later married. I guess O'Hare preferred he be thought of that way than to set the record straight.

I think it is tragic that the stigma of mental illness was, and to some extent still is, so bad that being seen as a womanising asshole was preferential to admitting illness. This whole idea that mental illness is somehow shameful, or a sign of "Lack of Moral Fibre", which can be wished away by just acting tougher, is one which needs to die. Things are improving, slowly, but even now there is too much stigma and too many government agencies (here in the UK at least) which flat out refuse to think of mental ill health as a healthcare problem. Mental health groups actually had to take the govt to court just a couple of months ago just to get recognition of that in social policy, but that is a topic for the politics thread I guess.

[SlackerinDeNile]

Tell me about it, mental health stigma is the real problem. It makes me wonder had O'Hare been able to just come out to everyone about it and get the help and support he needed at the time, would he still have stayed on as a main cast member?

[Percysowner]

Tell me about it, mental health stigma is the real problem. It makes me wonder had O'Hare been able to just come out to everyone about it and get the help and support he needed at the time, would he still have stayed on as a main cast member?

Certainly the stigma is awful and I hope that had O'Hare shared his illness he might have been treated with compassion by his fellow actors. However, it sounded as if he really was too ill to continue. JMS indicated that he needed intensive treatment and simply couldn't cope with the demands that being a lead on a series entails.

[AlucardNoir]

Tell me about it, mental health stigma is the real problem. It makes me wonder had O'Hare been able to just come out to everyone about it and get the help and support he needed at the time, would he still have stayed on as a main cast member?

Your particular turn of phrase indicates he wasn't receiving any medial help at the time or that the rest of the crew could have done anything to help in what at the end of the day is a medical condition. The crew might have been filled with fewer dicks towards him but that's not what he needed. It might have helped, but not what he actually needed.

[SlackerinDeNile]

I don't see how I implied that he wasn't receiving ANY help, it was just a what-if question. I never knew him or Jerry personally so I can't really say for sure how the situation played out or how bad his condition truly was, I only hope that he attained a healthier state of mind later on for his sake.

[AlucardNoir]

I don't see how I implied that he wasn't receiving ANY help, it was just a what-if question. I never knew him or Jerry personally so I can't really say for sure how the situation played out or how bad his condition truly was, I only hope that he attained a healthier state of mind later on for his sake.

[...] had O'Hare been able to just come out to everyone about it and get the help and support he needed at the time,[...]

That's not implying he wasn't receiving the help he needed?

[Beastro]

[Doyle] took a lot O'Hare's actions as him being a womanizing asshole, especially given that some of O'Hare's behaviour was towards Andrea Thompson who Doyle was in a relationship with and later married. I guess O'Hare preferred he be thought of that way than to set the record straight.

I think it is tragic that the stigma of mental illness was, and to some extent still is, so bad that being seen as a womanising asshole was preferential to admitting illness. This whole idea that mental illness is somehow shameful, or a sign of "Lack of Moral Fibre", which can be wished away by just acting tougher, is one which needs to die. Things are improving, slowly, but even now there is too much stigma and too many government agencies (here in the UK at least) which flat out refuse to think of mental ill health as a healthcare problem. Mental health groups actually had to take the govt to court just a couple of months ago just to get recognition of that in social policy, but that is a topic for the politics thread I guess.

Keep in mind mental health stigmas aren't always external.

It's just a hunch, but from what I've read I get the feeling it had more to do with him not wanting others to know for his own sake, as in if others knew he'd feel bad about it even if everyone was understanding in that British stiff upper lip way.

He was suffering from paranoid delusions we don't know what hell he went through and what he was thinking that might have left him shamed. All I know was how my grandmother acted after her final stroke and the dementia it brought on that was minor and bad enough that she just warned me not to drink tea mom made and spitting her pills back in our faces through her ensure straw when we'd give them to her.

His wanting to keep it underwraps might have very well been an expression of his paranoia.