Enterprise: Borderland

[GandALF]

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e180.php

[clearspira]

Whenever I think of just how butchered T'Pol was as a character, I think of her kicking Big Show in the balls whilst angrily cracking a one-liner. Come off it; can you imagine for a second Spock or Tuvok doing that? No, they go for the neck pinch or a punch to the jaw stoically. And don't reply to me with ''he was bigger and stronger than her'' because Vulcans, even female Vulcans, have three times the strength of humans, meaning that even with her bony arms, T'Pol actually should be on par with Big Show in a punching match. But honestly my real problem here is absolutely with the one-liner spoken with a face full of rage, I cannot get over it. It is the very opposite of a Vulcan response to any situation.

Honestly to me, this is another example of the sexism (or at least childish writing) that plagued Enterprise along with her catsuit, the decon chamber, and the Pon Farr episode. T'Pol couldn't be as wise and level-headed as Spock and Tuvok; no, she had to be far more emotional than they are, a smack (Trelium) addict for a whole season, and frequently a bigot (although she grew out of the last one).
Going by T'Pol's performance on this show, and she is remember the first main character female Vulcan that we have had on this show and as such is the benchmark, female Vulcans are less logical than the males, more emotional than the males, more impulsive than the males, and are more willing to wear objectifying clothes than the males. Or is this an unfair characterization? Because I really do not think that it is.

[FaxModem1]

Regarding T'pol, Manny Coto's plan for season 5, whether as a retcon, or as the plan all along, was that her father was a Romulan, to both explain why T'pol has problems with her self control, and as a way to build up for the Romulan war.

Regarding the genetic engineering issue, spoilers for the end of this episode trilogy, but Soong's notes aren't destroyed, but are being analyzed by Earth scientists. And since in the 24th century, Miral Paris got her spined fixed in utero, they do have some allowance for genetic engineering of children.

[CMWaters]

clearspira: You're judging the strength thing as if Big Show's character was human. Orions weren't seen that much in the show, so we don't know their strength level compared to a Vulcan...on average, an Orion male could be as strong to a Vulcan female as a normal human male is to a normal human female. The anger thing I'll agree with, but comparing the strength thing needs more data.

Also, I'll let the "You thing a guy who pushes people around all day would wear a cup" line slide from Chuck because he's not a pro-wrestling fan and doesn't realize that, story wise, NO wrestler seems to wear a cup. Just look at the current feud between AJ Styles and Shinsuke Nakamura for that

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Honestly to me, this is another example of the sexism (or at least childish writing) that plagued Enterprise along with her catsuit, the decon chamber, and the Pon Farr episode. T'Pol couldn't be as wise and level-headed as Spock and Tuvok; no, she had to be far more emotional than they are, a smack (Trelium) addict for a whole season, and frequently a bigot (although she grew out of the last one).
Going by T'Pol's performance on this show, and she is remember the first main character female Vulcan that we have had on this show and as such is the benchmark, female Vulcans are less logical than the males, more emotional than the males, more impulsive than the males, and are more willing to wear objectifying clothes than the males. Or is this an unfair characterization? Because I really do not think that it is.

I agree with you. For what it's worth, I think Jolene Blalock would agree as well-

You can't take T'Pol and say 'Okay, you're a Vulcan' and take away the Vulcan characteristics. You might as well clip the ears! For example: eating food with their hands - they don't do that! And yet they'll throw in episodes where she's eating popcorn, and I'll say, 'Can I use a napkin?'...'No! Use your hands!'

I always thought that both T'Pau and T'Pring in TOS' Amok Time were fantastic one-off characters. Both characters exude both personal dignity and logic. T'Pau is tremendously regal but has a tinge of warmth to her character (in a very Vulcan way, of course). T'Pring is colder and more calculating, but her logic in that episode is undeniable.

T'Pol in contrast, seems more grumpy, deadpan, and contrarian to me than "logical." To me, it felt too much like a facade, as if she really was just hiding her Vulcan characteristics and was bordering on the edge of a breakdown as often as not. And the convoluted, artificial efforts to get her into sexual situations (its the artificiality that's the problem for me, not necessarily the catsuits themselves) and acting "feral" or something do a nice job of robbing the character of some of the dignity she could otherwise have.

So yeah, I think T'Pol's characterization was generally pretty poor, and the chance to have an interesting female Vulcan was squandered.

[PerrySimm]

After Data "died" in Nemesis, it was bittersweet to have Brent Spiner back in Star Trek. A worthy effort.

The tale of a geneticist Soong at the centre of a supersoldier crisis based on the TNG character name "Noonien" is technically a "small universe" story, but it is also pretty much exactly what Enterprise needed at the time - a much stronger connection to the rest of Star Trek, and actually paying attention to the details.

On a technical note, the Orion auction boards were very well-executed, from the fake-alien-font to the practical use of off-the-shelf displays.

[Riedquat]

I always thought that both T'Pau and T'Pring in TOS' Amok Time were fantastic one-off characters. Both characters exude both personal dignity and logic. T'Pau is tremendously regal but has a tinge of warmth to her character (in a very Vulcan way, of course). T'Pring is colder and more calculating, but her logic in that episode is undeniable.

It feels that modern Trek (not that it's so modern any more) doesn't really know what to do with Vulcans. On the surface it sounds difficult - stick with the logical and still have any sort of personality and not be just deadpan. Tuvok is a notable exception, a modern era Vulcan performed well.

[clearspira]

clearspira: You're judging the strength thing as if Big Show's character was human. Orions weren't seen that much in the show, so we don't know their strength level compared to a Vulcan...on average, an Orion male could be as strong to a Vulcan female as a normal human male is to a normal human female. The anger thing I'll agree with, but comparing the strength thing needs more data.

Also, I'll let the "You thing a guy who pushes people around all day would wear a cup" line slide from Chuck because he's not a pro-wrestling fan and doesn't realize that, story wise, NO wrestler seems to wear a cup. Just look at the current feud between AJ Styles and Shinsuke Nakamura for that

I may be wrong, but I don't think that was a wrestling reference, but more a "hey, buddy; you spend all day within kicking distance of people you are trying to enslave. There is a certain inevitability about what is going to happen here."
That is a good point about Orion V Vulcan strength that I concede though.

[clearspira]

I always thought that both T'Pau and T'Pring in TOS' Amok Time were fantastic one-off characters. Both characters exude both personal dignity and logic. T'Pau is tremendously regal but has a tinge of warmth to her character (in a very Vulcan way, of course). T'Pring is colder and more calculating, but her logic in that episode is undeniable.

It feels that modern Trek (not that it's so modern any more) doesn't really know what to do with Vulcans. On the surface it sounds difficult - stick with the logical and still have any sort of personality and not be just deadpan. Tuvok is a notable exception, a modern era Vulcan performed well.

I think part of the problem is that we were spoiled by the acting talents of Leonard Nimoy, Tim Russ and Brent Spiner for so long that we kind of forgot just how difficult trying to convey emotion in emotionless beings actually is. These three men could tell you so much in a wink or a nod that lesser actors could only do with a sentence. Its really the exact opposite of everything you learn in every other acting role you'll ever have. I don't feel like that this absolves bad performances, but I can certainly understand how those bad performances happen.

This does of course go back to what Chuck said: if they had done a soft reboot of this series after season 3 then we could have had a female Vulcan done right. The way I would have done it is to have T'Pol mentor the first true female Vulcan in Starfleet by going the "T'Pol is a Romulan" plot mentioned above, which would be similar in style to what Spock did to Saavik and Valeris. That way Blalock wouldn't have to lose her job and the fans could have had the female Vulcan that we actually wanted. And when the Earth-Romulan war arc comes up, hey, we now have a Romulan on the NX-02's bridge. Plenty of opportunities for stories there.

I really wish that someone would go back in time and make Chuck the head writer for Enterprise and the latter-day TNG films. Imagine the entertainment that we have lost out on thanks to Berman and Braga.

[Enterprising]

I always thought that both T'Pau and T'Pring in TOS' Amok Time were fantastic one-off characters. Both characters exude both personal dignity and logic. T'Pau is tremendously regal but has a tinge of warmth to her character (in a very Vulcan way, of course). T'Pring is colder and more calculating, but her logic in that episode is undeniable.

If not for having to pay a royalty every episode, T'Pol would have been named T'Pau, no doubt intended to be a younger version of that character. Due to subsequent said writing, I'm kinda glad they had to change the name.