Should Kathleen Kennedy be let go from the Star Wars megaproject?

[Fixer]

I remember when a few racists made it impossible to call Ghostbusters a structurally incompetent mess with lazy writing, but what happened with the ending to ME3 other than most of the fanbase revolting against that railroaded, nonsensical pile of shit?

(also, MY version would've involved Shep's squadmates fighting alongside them to the bitter end and then Shep blowing the shit out of Harbinger and spending a few months to years in the hospital, but that's just me)

Back when EA was voted the Worst company in America (again) they tried to deflect the Mass Effect 3 controversy by saying it was because gamers hated them for their inclusion of gay characters.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2 ... 6400e978bb

It's THAT bad? I knew the fanboys were pissed and popular interest was waning, but it's that bad???

I think it's far worse than anyone would be willing to admit. One of the companies I support is a toy store, and they haven't been shifting many Star Wars toys of late, while Marvel toys are going by the boatload. A guy in the Wargaming club works retail in Tesco. He said they had boxes of unsold TLJ DVD and Blu Rays that had stacked up.

Outside of that that, my local group of friends in our Tabletop group. I'd say only one guy liked the last Jedi out of 5. Big brother who group up with the original trilogy but wouldn't call himself a fan hated the new movie and sent me text messages of him "detoxing" after seeing it by watching the Empire Strikes Back and reminding himself that the original trilogy still exists.

In the SWTOR group that consists of about 50 active people there were 3-4 people that said they really liked the movie, with the rest being ambivalent or actively hating it. I was still getting into conversations with people that had only just gotten a chance to see the movie as recent as last month to let me know how much they thought it sucked.

Most damningly of all, there's my best friend of 20 years that has avoided all this internet drama until recently and I've tried to see every single new movie release with, who was also a massive fan of the Jedi to the point I bought him a full Jedi outfit for a Christmas present one year... hates this movie.

Worse than than, and tying back to the the problem with this hateful defence of the movie, he learned what a "SJW" was after someone he knew went on attack mode after he stated his opinion on the movie online. He's now left Facebook and when I linked him a trailer of Solo earlier this year he didn't even respond so I have thus avoided the topic again.

That's why I simply cannot accept that the backlash against TLJ is a minor thing. The people I game or socialise with don't go onto social media making angry messages or get into shouting matches online about this sort of thing. A lot of them are avoiding confrontation about it, or just becoming ambivalent to the whole affair. They're not making their dissatisfaction known by making complaints, they're just not going to see any future movies.

This is a problem I can only see getting worse in the near future if division and nastiness carries on.

[Worffan101]

I remember when a few racists made it impossible to call Ghostbusters a structurally incompetent mess with lazy writing, but what happened with the ending to ME3 other than most of the fanbase revolting against that railroaded, nonsensical pile of shit?

(also, MY version would've involved Shep's squadmates fighting alongside them to the bitter end and then Shep blowing the shit out of Harbinger and spending a few months to years in the hospital, but that's just me)

Back when EA was voted the Worst company in America (again) they tried to deflect the Mass Effect 3 controversy by saying it was because gamers hated them for their inclusion of gay characters.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2 ... 6400e978bb

Jesus Christ.

Did they not realize that most of the people who were pissed had just finished spending 3 games with their FemShep hugging Tali, romancing someone (it's always Liara for me, Commander Shepard has a weakness for adorable sweethearted blue girls who can crush people's skulls with a thought), palling around with Garrus, joking with Wrex, helping literally fucking everyone with their problems, crying over Mordin, et cetera? Did they not even listen to the fucking complaints?

It's THAT bad? I knew the fanboys were pissed and popular interest was waning, but it's that bad???

I think it's far worse than anyone would be willing to admit. One of the companies I support is a toy store, and they haven't been shifting many Star Wars toys of late, while Marvel toys are going by the boatload. A guy in the Wargaming club works retail in Tesco. He said they had boxes of unsold TLJ DVD and Blu Rays that had stacked up.

Outside of that that, my local group of friends in our Tabletop group. I'd say only one guy liked the last Jedi out of 5. Big brother who group up with the original trilogy but wouldn't call himself a fan hated the new movie and sent me text messages of him "detoxing" after seeing it by watching the Empire Strikes Back and reminding himself that the original trilogy still exists.

In the SWTOR group that consists of about 50 active people there were 3-4 people that said they really liked the movie, with the rest being ambivalent or actively hating it. I was still getting into conversations with people that had only just gotten a chance to see the movie as recent as last month to let me know how much they thought it sucked.

Most damningly of all, there's my best friend of 20 years that has avoided all this internet drama until recently and I've tried to see every single new movie release with, who was also a massive fan of the Jedi to the point I bought him a full Jedi outfit for a Christmas present one year... hates this movie.

Worse than than, and tying back to the the problem with this hateful defence of the movie, he learned what a "SJW" was after someone he knew went on attack mode after he stated his opinion on the movie online. He's now left Facebook and when I linked him a trailer of Solo earlier this year he didn't even respond so I have thus avoided the topic again.

That's why I simply cannot accept that the backlash against TLJ is a minor thing. The people I game or socialise with don't go onto social media making angry messages or get into shouting matches online about this sort of thing. A lot of them are avoiding confrontation about it, or just becoming ambivalent to the whole affair. They're not making their dissatisfaction known by making complaints, they're just not going to see any future movies.

This is a problem I can only see getting worse in the near future if division and nastiness carries on.

Great H'ronmeer, that's bad. Over on the main forum I'm involved with opinion on TLJ is sharply divided between a few hardline defenders and some generally lukewarm to harsh opposition of varying degrees of vitriol.

Off that forum--my dad thought it was a "fucking mess", as he whispered to me during the salt-planet scene, my brother liked it but he's on a grimdark contrarian kick (he's pro-DCEU, claims to be uninterested in Thor 3, and says the Arrowverse shows are "stupid" and dissing Luke Cage while liking Daredevil), my buddy liked it because it subverted expectations and tried to critique and deconstruct the universe like KOTOR 2 (he likes Episode 3 for similar reasons, since it showed the downfall of a democracy to populist fascism), and I hated it for FAILING to be that kind of clever deconstructive work.

Overall, though, I've seen more 60%/40% positive reactions. Bad, but not THAT bad.

[Fixer]

Overall, though, I've seen more 60%/40% positive reactions. Bad, but not THAT bad.

You could put it down to my social circles being in the UK and though the SWTOR group is extremely diverse and international, they were all part of the EU Star Wars fandom.

I had a quick look at box office mojo to see how the UK box office fared and with 1/5 of the US's population the UK had 1/10th of the takings. Certainly the one guy I know that went to see Solo said the theatre was nearly empty.

Digging a bit deeper for comparison, the UK took in 163 million compared to 936 million domestic for the US when the Force Awakens was out. That was was a much higher taking per capita before. There has been a hell of a drop.

It matches my observation that there has been somewhat of a Star Wars fandom apocalypse around here.

[Worffan101]

Overall, though, I've seen more 60%/40% positive reactions. Bad, but not THAT bad.

You could put it down to my social circles being in the UK and though the SWTOR group is extremely diverse and international, they were all part of the EU Star Wars fandom.

I had a quick look at box office mojo to see how the UK box office fared and with 1/5 of the US's population the UK had 1/10th of the takings. Certainly the one guy I know that went to see Solo said the theatre was nearly empty.

Digging a bit deeper for comparison, the UK took in 163 million compared to 936 million domestic for the US when the Force Awakens was out. That was was a much higher taking per capita before. There has been a hell of a drop.

It matches my observation that there has been somewhat of a Star Wars fandom apocalypse around here.

...and TLJ grossed 1.3 billion to TFA's 2+. That's not a good situation, you're right.

[MithrandirOlorin]

Before George Lucas even sold everything to Disney I was of the opinion the only way I'd be remotely interested in a post ROTJ Trilogy is if it the new Jedi in training is a woman.

So no, you can't blame my disillusionment with this trilogy on being offended by the very idea of Rey for some Sexist reason. Just looking at what I like in Anime shows that female Messianic Archetypes are what I like.

Frankly I think it's Sexist that with all the screen time they've given Rey she still feels like less of a distinct character then Lucas was able to make Leia and Padme in only their first films.

[Yukaphile]

I've seen right-wing trolls hijack legitimate grievances people have, even on the political topics, just to further their agenda. Look at what they did to that Wookieepedia page, editing it to represent Kelly Marie Tran as a drooling, dumb retard with autism from a primitive jungle country. It's horrible. And they've dropped the N-bomb. While there are legit complaints in Rey being a Mary Sue, they clearly just fear strong women, this, yes, this minority, but that is nonetheless loud enough to get noticed. They need to stop this. They are just destroying the credibility of those who might be able to get Lucasfilm to listen, but then, as Fixer noted, and as I suspect is likely, they're probably too far up their own butts to listen. But at least then you can't blame right-wing trolls anymore if they stopped.

[Karha of Honor]

I've seen right-wing trolls hijack legitimate grievances people have, even on the political topics, just to further their agenda. Look at what they did to that Wookieepedia page, editing it to represent Kelly Marie Tran as a drooling, dumb retard with autism from a primitive jungle country. It's horrible. And they've dropped the N-bomb. While there are legit complaints in Rey being a Mary Sue, they clearly just fear strong women, this, yes, this minority, but that is nonetheless loud enough to get noticed. They need to stop this. They are just destroying the credibility of those who might be able to get Lucasfilm to listen, but then, as Fixer noted, and as I suspect is likely, they're probably too far up their own butts to listen. But at least then you can't blame right-wing trolls anymore if they stopped.

If Lucasfilm just cherrypick the worst opnions they did not intend to listen in the first place.

Before George Lucas even sold everything to Disney I was of the opinion the only way I'd be remotely interested in a post ROTJ Trilogy is if it the new Jedi in training is a woman.

So no, you can't blame my disillusionment with this trilogy on being offended by the very idea of Rey for some Sexist reason. Just looking at what I like in Anime shows that female Messianic Archetypes are what I like.

Frankly I think it's Sexist that with all the screen time they've given Rey she still feels like less of a distinct character then Lucas was able to make Leia and Padme in only their first films.

So no, you can't blame my disillusionment with this trilogy on being offended by the very idea of Rey for some Sexist reason.

Life must be harsh in SJland if you have to put this out there beforehand.

You were only interested in a new trilogy if the Jedi is woman, because...

Poliktcs?

You are a lesbian and want to fall in love with the lead?

What is your deal?

[Fixer]

Life must be harsh in SJland if you have to put this out there beforehand.

You were only interested in a new trilogy if the Jedi is woman, because...

Poliktcs?

You are a lesbian and want to fall in love with the lead?

What is your deal?

I've just handed out a warning in the Discovery thread for similar. I'm going to give the same warning here now. Keep the tone respectful. If it crosses the line again I'm giving out official warnings to those I deem responsible.

[MithrandirOlorin]

I've seen right-wing trolls hijack legitimate grievances people have, even on the political topics, just to further their agenda. Look at what they did to that Wookieepedia page, editing it to represent Kelly Marie Tran as a drooling, dumb retard with autism from a primitive jungle country. It's horrible. And they've dropped the N-bomb. While there are legit complaints in Rey being a Mary Sue, they clearly just fear strong women, this, yes, this minority, but that is nonetheless loud enough to get noticed. They need to stop this. They are just destroying the credibility of those who might be able to get Lucasfilm to listen, but then, as Fixer noted, and as I suspect is likely, they're probably too far up their own butts to listen. But at least then you can't blame right-wing trolls anymore if they stopped.

If Lucasfilm just cherrypick the worst opnions they did not intend to listen in the first place.

Before George Lucas even sold everything to Disney I was of the opinion the only way I'd be remotely interested in a post ROTJ Trilogy is if it the new Jedi in training is a woman.

So no, you can't blame my disillusionment with this trilogy on being offended by the very idea of Rey for some Sexist reason. Just looking at what I like in Anime shows that female Messianic Archetypes are what I like.

Frankly I think it's Sexist that with all the screen time they've given Rey she still feels like less of a distinct character then Lucas was able to make Leia and Padme in only their first films.

So no, you can't blame my disillusionment with this trilogy on being offended by the very idea of Rey for some Sexist reason.

Life must be harsh in SJland if you have to put this out there beforehand.

You were only interested in a new trilogy if the Jedi is woman, because...

Poliktcs?

You are a lesbian and want to fall in love with the lead?

What is your deal?

Because I general I enjoy female lead stories more.

And I also prefer Star Wars to simply end with ROTJ, so a new trilogy would have an uphill battle to get my interest.

[Admiral X]

When TFA came out, I was ready to like Rey. I was hoping that with her being a scavenger that we'd get a different but interesting character. But she ended up being not all that interesting, largely because there wasn't much to her aside from being a bit too perfect. There was no drama, and even as I watched I got the feeling that the writers were afraid to have anything bad happen to her. Honestly I really wanted to like all the characters, until the writing just didn't do anything for them. Even worse, they basically did a character assassination on Han and Luke. TLJ came off as especially spiteful toward the original movies, and I couldn't help but get the feeling that Kylo Ren's line about killing the past was actually the writer/director speaking directly to the audience.