Chuck's thoughts on KOTOR 2, review, & Kreia?

[Yukaphile]

Well, if the Force is a collective energy, created by living beings, all forms of life, then it has no guide or direction. This, however, is contradicted by Lucas himself. It wasn't until the prequels that it was specifically stated the Force had a will. It wants things to happen. I'd honestly have preferred if the Force was not a self-aware entity, but just a byproduct of living creatures. So that with time, these imperfections could be phased out, and the energy field "purified" with enough time for social development and technology to improve to meet those needs.

[CharlesPhipps]

Well, if the Force is a collective energy, created by living beings, all forms of life, then it has no guide or direction. This, however, is contradicted by Lucas himself. It wasn't until the prequels that it was specifically stated the Force had a will. It wants things to happen. I'd honestly have preferred if the Force was not a self-aware entity, but just a byproduct of living creatures. So that with time, these imperfections could be phased out, and the energy field "purified" with enough time for social development and technology to improve to meet those needs.

It has a light and a dark side so one might say it has two wills.

Its own and a corruption.

[Riedquat]

Well, if the Force is a collective energy, created by living beings, all forms of life, then it has no guide or direction. This, however, is contradicted by Lucas himself. It wasn't until the prequels that it was specifically stated the Force had a will. It wants things to happen. I'd honestly have preferred if the Force was not a self-aware entity, but just a byproduct of living creatures. So that with time, these imperfections could be phased out, and the energy field "purified" with enough time for social development and technology to improve to meet those needs.

It has a light and a dark side so one might say it has two wills.

Its own and a corruption.

That could've been just how people talked about it, a bit of anthropomorphism of the Force. There are numerous real things that you could speak of in a similar fashion, e.g. money (can certainly have both positive and negative effects on people), desire (lead to wonderful love and intimacy or hideous crimes and obsessions against other people) etc.

[Madner Kami]

Well, if the Force is a collective energy, created by living beings, all forms of life, then it has no guide or direction. This, however, is contradicted by Lucas himself. It wasn't until the prequels that it was specifically stated the Force had a will. It wants things to happen. I'd honestly have preferred if the Force was not a self-aware entity, but just a byproduct of living creatures. So that with time, these imperfections could be phased out, and the energy field "purified" with enough time for social development and technology to improve to meet those needs.

Your consiousness is a collective entity created by your neurons interacting, thus you have no guide or direction. There are countless things out there, which are more than the sum of their parts.

[CharlesPhipps]

I think of the Force as a collective entity. Very much of a mixture of Western and Eastern spirituality. It is both a separate thing and a collection of all things.

[Wargriffin]

The problem of KOTOR 2 are the same as Pillars of Eternity and Lonesome Road. I.e. The problems of Chris Avellone and philosophical nihilism. If you don't actually agree with philosophical nihilism then the entire thing falls apart.

Which brings me to the biggest flaw of KOTOR2.

The constant never ending kissing of Revan's ass. It bends over backwards to justify him/her and make it so he was ACTUALLY trying to save the universe from an EVEN BIGGER THREAT. That didn't work for Grand Admiral Thrawn and doens't work for Revan.

Thats pretty much it. If you don't agree with its arguments, Kotor 2 at best might let Kreia admit to some bias and hypocrisy on her part but its little more then waved off and ultimately Kreia is allowed to win no matter what you do.


ToR for its part does act somewhat of a Reconstruction to Kotor's 2 Deconstruction ultimately countering alot of Kreia's points... hell Vitiate/Valkorion pretty much is alot of Kreia's ideals made manifest in a single person... yeah let that sink in for a second.

IE ToR lets the Jedi have various points of view on attachments and such IE how they are suppose to be, The PT Jedi are at the long end of stagnation not the default setting which was Kotor I 's big sin was making the Jedi uniform in belief... which is funny cause even the PT had Jedi butting heads with the established line of thinking though thats more due to BW's usually approach to writing gots to make the legions of Light slightly less effective then THE Heroes ya know.

Then again Star wars has always done that to the Republic... ya know for something we fought so hard to protect/restore... It tends to be ****ing useless

[CharlesPhipps]

I remember how everyone was angry and stunned to discover that Revan wasn't working against the Sith Empire but actually their vanguard.

In short, Revan wasn't Palpatine but Vader all along.

[GandALF]

Well, if the Force is a collective energy, created by living beings, all forms of life, then it has no guide or direction. This, however, is contradicted by Lucas himself. It wasn't until the prequels that it was specifically stated the Force had a will. It wants things to happen. I'd honestly have preferred if the Force was not a self-aware entity, but just a byproduct of living creatures. So that with time, these imperfections could be phased out, and the energy field "purified" with enough time for social development and technology to improve to meet those needs.

It has a light and a dark side so one might say it has two wills.

Its own and a corruption.

The TCW Yoda arc explains that there's a cosmic Force which creates/renews life and has a will and and the living Force which is generated by life and has the light and dark side which then becomes one with the cosmic Force.

cosmic Force creates life -> life creates living Force -> life dies and becomes one with the cosmic Force -> cosmic Force creates new life (Rey sort of sees it in TLJ)

Consciousness seems to remain in the cosmic Force's netherworld though. I doubt a Bantha is born with the memories of a random stormtrooper

The Sith's problem is that by being unbalanced by their dark side (i.e base desires) they become addicted to the material world and have to dominate and control it while also becoming obsessed with physical immortality. The irony being that by being connected to the Force, they are already immortal in a sense, they just have to let go of their attachment to the material world.

The Sith essentially try to usurp the cosmic Force's will over the living Force and become the masters of life and death.

[Jonathan101]

I remember how everyone was angry and stunned to discover that Revan wasn't working against the Sith Empire but actually their vanguard.

In short, Revan wasn't Palpatine but Vader all along.

Well, he WAS working against the Sith Empire. He rebelled against the Sith Emperor and tried to conquer the galaxy to prepare it for a Sith invasion...which happened 300 years later (thank you Old Republic MMO).

[CharlesPhipps]

Well, he WAS working against the Sith Empire. He rebelled against the Sith Emperor and tried to conquer the galaxy to prepare it for a Sith invasion...which happened 300 years later (thank you Old Republic MMO).

I don't think that's the case. There's no sign Revan planned to rebel against the Sith Emperor except in Kreia's opinion and she has a very skewed view of her apprentice.

Mind you, the game made it clear the Sith Emperor had decided the Sith Empire was an enormous failure by that time. I like that element of the story that the person most disgusted by the Sith Empire aside from the LS Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor is the Emperor.