Lonely Among Us (TNG)

[Dînadan]

Chuck, you're onto something with this Mirror Universe gag. Keep it going xD

Further proof look at Wil Wheaton - 20th century Wil has no beard and was the annoying kid character in TNG, 21st century Wil has a beard and hosts his own popular web show; the pieces all fit!

[rickgriffin]

There is still from TNG S1:
The Big Goodbye
11001001
Too Short a Season (HAH!)
Home Soil
Coming of Age
Heart of Glory
Symbiosis

And

We'll Always Have Paris (That one shares its title with Harry Kim's own fanfic folder)

So that is a lot of awful still to come. Actually, I think three of those are pretty good. Well, two anyway and one sort of borderline.

Still, could be worse. Could be season one Enterprise.

Not to completely derail the thread but it may still be a while until these episodes are covered and I'm really curious as to how Chuck's opinion falls on them. From what I recall of my watch through of season one, 11001001 is probably the least awful. It still has some really ridiculous flaws that likely wouldn't have made it past editing in season three, but it was nevertheless surprising that the key and resolution to the plot were pretty good. The reasoning still was rather dumb (them trying to explain how the binars think trips over its feet multiple times) and it has that weird Season One stilted script-speak, but unlike a lot of season one those are mostly just surface flaws.

[lightningbarer]

The Problem with the early TNG is a lot of the superiority of things and how the Humans are portrayed. I really had forgotten about the meat of this episode and how its a very "bad" example of things on a lot of fronts.

Was Gene a Vegan? Was he an animal rights activist? I haven't read anywhere that he was. But then again it could be art pre-empting life like the Canadian show The Kids in the Hall that so perfectly described life today on college campuses its sort of scary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1tFbZ5kaY8

There's always gonna be problems when inferring with issues to do with politics and current affairs. I'm sure most people on this forum and your fans are of the Liberal side of politics and would consider themselves open-minded

It just feels like a bit of a lame duck really, yeah make fun of Daddy all you want, I can laugh at the tiny handed crazy guy.
He's still a billionaire. He still defeated every single mainstream media publication and news group. He still defeated a person who had control of an entire wing of American politics.
You could even say she had a hive mind when it came to things.( hint hint - Janeway and Borg joke just waiting for you Chuck)

In the end, we all know that early TNG is a clusterfuck of bad ideas and bad writing. I don't know whether to blame Fontana or Gene for this mess really, as both have shown signs in the past of spotty thinking on certain issues.

[SuccubusYuri]

The Problem with the early TNG is a lot of the superiority of things and how the Humans are portrayed. I really had forgotten about the meat of this episode and how its a very "bad" example of things on a lot of fronts.

Was Gene a Vegan? Was he an animal rights activist? I haven't read anywhere that he was. But then again it could be art pre-empting life like the Canadian show The Kids in the Hall that so perfectly described life today on college campuses its sort of scary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1tFbZ5kaY8

There's always gonna be problems when inferring with issues to do with politics and current affairs. I'm sure most people on this forum and your fans are of the Liberal side of politics and would consider themselves open-minded

It just feels like a bit of a lame duck really, yeah make fun of Daddy all you want, I can laugh at the tiny handed crazy guy.
He's still a billionaire. He still defeated every single mainstream media publication and news group. He still defeated a person who had control of an entire wing of American politics.
You could even say she had a hive mind when it came to things.( hint hint - Janeway and Borg joke just waiting for you Chuck)

In the end, we all know that early TNG is a clusterfuck of bad ideas and bad writing. I don't know whether to blame Fontana or Gene for this mess really, as both have shown signs in the past of spotty thinking on certain issues.

You just have to look at the last B5 review having been split into two topics, that I think to say "current events" is silly. B5 did not predict Trump, or the very specific geopolitics that occurred in the United States. Because remember; B5 predicted we'd still buy PHYSICAL newspapers in the 23rd century.

They are just constants of the human condition. And the only constant within is that everyone inside will say "Well yes but THIS TIME is different."

That is the difference between B5 and the War Prayer, and Star Trek and this episode (and Gene's era of TNG in general); the former was a grander statement about the human condition. Early TNG is incredibly dated and obviously a product of its time. Like the whales. Or this bizarre vegan fetish that comes from nowhere and goes nowhere. Or...okay ANYTHING about social conditions that TNGene tried to tackle. But it is important to differentiate that you can do politics well. Just not in this show xD

[lightningbarer]

snip

Oh I agree with most of what you've said here, where early TNG tried to be big and well thought out, for the most part B5 is-it can be hamfisted and up its own nose at times - generally a better show than early TNG.

What gets me with commentary about politics these days is a general lack of openness when it comes to talking about this stuff. Yeah we have Chucks assurance that there were people in the 80's saying "we should trust Russia" and people saying "Russia is the debul" and its true, its always true and yeah you're right when you say the whole "its different NOW".
And its that point that gives me the bug.

I love Chucks work, he's a top notch reviewer and honestly smart thinker.

But I didn't see him making these kind of snarky comments when it comes to Obama. I don't think he'll make any references to Clinton, the MSM and the whole of the DNC being a hell of a lot like the Borg.

And in those situations I don't like it when someone is willing to have skewed morals.
I supported Trump in run in for the Presidency - even being in the UK - but I'm still willing to laugh at him. I'm still willing to mock him and call him out for his BS when he does it.
I would prefer to see people be similar to that than to be all over Trump for the next number of years Americans have him.

[Durandal_1707]

Early TNG is incredibly dated and obviously a product of its time. Like the whales. Or this bizarre vegan fetish that comes from nowhere and goes nowhere.

Actually, the vegan thing is one part of it that actually makes sense. If you had the wherewithal to create chicken meat that tasted just like the real thing without having to actually farm the chickens, who would spend their time farming chickens? It's not like it's glamorous work. Also, it's expensive in terms of grazing lands, feed, etc., and with a constantly rising population, it makes sense that the process would need to get more efficient at some point.

People are actually working on this now. It's not inconceivable that by the 24th century, this technology would have progressed sufficiently far as to make animal farming obsolete. And in the Star Trek universe, well, they'd already established the replicator technology, which would certainly do the trick, so.

[rickgriffin]

Actually, the vegan thing is one part of it that actually makes sense. If you had the wherewithal to create chicken meat that tasted just like the real thing without having to actually farm the chickens, who would spend their time farming chickens? It's not like it's glamorous work. Also, it's expensive in terms of grazing lands, feed, etc., and with a constantly rising population, it makes sense that the process would need to get more efficient at some point.

People are actually working on this now. It's not inconceivable that by the 24th century, this technology would have progressed sufficiently far as to make animal farming obsolete. And in the Star Trek universe, well, they'd already established the replicator technology, which would certainly do the trick, so.

I was gonna say "that doesn't excuse their smarminess about it" but thinking over it, the attitude almost makes sense. Of COURSE breeding animals for slaughter is wrong and morally abhorrent . . . AFTER we invented a perfect substitute and don't need to do it anymore.

Of course, that still doesn't explain how they expected to be diplomatic about it, especially given they're supposed to be friends with the Klingons who clearly have no such compunctions.

[Dînadan]

Early TNG is incredibly dated and obviously a product of its time. Like the whales. Or this bizarre vegan fetish that comes from nowhere and goes nowhere.

Actually, the vegan thing is one part of it that actually makes sense. If you had the wherewithal to create chicken meat that tasted just like the real thing without having to actually farm the chickens, who would spend their time farming chickens? It's not like it's glamorous work. Also, it's expensive in terms of grazing lands, feed, etc., and with a constantly rising population, it makes sense that the process would need to get more efficient at some point.

People are actually working on this now. It's not inconceivable that by the 24th century, this technology would have progressed sufficiently far as to make animal farming obsolete. And in the Star Trek universe, well, they'd already established the replicator technology, which would certainly do the trick, so.

Presumably farming still exists in Trek in some form otherwise places like Sisko's that boast about real food wouldn't exist. Unless whoever they buy off is passing off replicated/artificially created meat, veg and fruit as the real deal and Joe Sisko and the rest don't realise it.

On a related note, if replicators had killed off farming, would cows, chickens, etc only exist in zoos and nature reserves or would they return to the wild?

[SFDebris]

My inclusion of Trump in the video wasn't an attack on him, it was just to show how the positions have now reversed themselves. Looking back I thought if anything my portrayal of the left was the meaner because I (and I can't tell you why, it was just spontaneous) gave the line in my Woody Allen impression, which made it sound wimpy and whiny. Like I said, there's no political subtext this video, it's all text.

I was gonna say "that doesn't excuse their smarminess about it" but thinking over it, the attitude almost makes sense. Of COURSE breeding animals for slaughter is wrong and morally abhorrent . . . AFTER we invented a perfect substitute and don't need to do it anymore.

Of course, that still doesn't explain how they expected to be diplomatic about it, especially given they're supposed to be friends with the Klingons who clearly have no such compunctions.

Besides the expressions they exchange (which puts this over the top), what particularly irked me about it was the use of the word "enslave." If you want to argue animal wellfare, that is a perfectly debatable topic, but I think if you want to win hearts and minds, don't use a word that indirectly compares centuries of the most shameful, unforgivable oppression with the plight of a cow.

And yeah, this seems to be forgotten later on; even in TNG, Keiko is amazed that Miles' mother used to prepare food using real meat. And her reaction is not revulsion, but rather like Mrs. O'Brien was doing something that people might not be brave enough to try.

[Durandal_1707]

Presumably farming still exists in Trek in some form otherwise places like Sisko's that boast about real food wouldn't exist. Unless whoever they buy off is passing off replicated/artificially created meat, veg and fruit as the real deal and Joe Sisko and the rest don't realise it.

Well, the show's not exactly consistent about it. Even if farming technically still exists, though, I'd expect that it'd be a tiny niche compared to what it is now, since replicated meat would provide you all the benefits with a tiny fraction of the hassle and cost.