TrueMetis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:02 pm
Psychologists have debated for years whether Hitler had a mental illness at all. But even among the ones that do think he was mentally ill, only a very small minority have actually called him a psychopath.
Also if you want believable villains Dragon Ball is not the place to go. I wouldn't call any of the villains from that series believable, I just don't care because all I want to see is the good guy punch the bad guy when it comes to that series.
he would have to have been a psychopath because almost every other form of mental illness would leave him with diminished capacity and he would be incapable of planning things out the way he did.
and how is Zamasu's motivation not believable? he already had reason to believe mortals were inherently flawed before he became Goasu's apprentice and then Gowasu just wanted to sit around and do nothing wile just hoping the Barbari would grow more civilized. when in these types of situations, a Supreme Kai should be advising the Destroyers and lower Kais what to do with the mortals.
but Zamasu was still a plain evil monster, thus, the two things can go hand and hand.
Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:25 pm
he would have to have been a psychopath because almost every other form of mental illness would leave him with diminished capacity and he would be incapable of planning things out the way he did.
... Yeah I'm done here. Troll or just incredibly fucking ignorant there's nothing here worth talking about.
Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:25 pm
he would have to have been a psychopath because almost every other form of mental illness would leave him with diminished capacity and he would be incapable of planning things out the way he did.
... Yeah I'm done here. Troll or just incredibly fucking ignorant there's nothing here worth talking about.
okay, I won't try to talk about psychological topics any more but I really cannot comprehend why anyone would do what Hitler did who isn't a sociopath.
and on fiction, I can think of another example of a villain with clear motivations but is also just a sociopath, from Trek even. Dolim from Enterprise's Xindi Arc. he isn't convinced the Sphere Builders are lying and is still trying to protect his people, to an extent because it becomes apparent, he doesn't care about the other Xindi races and wants to enslave them to the Reptilians. he also killed his own newborn grandchild.
Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:25 pm
he would have to have been a psychopath because almost every other form of mental illness would leave him with diminished capacity and he would be incapable of planning things out the way he did.
... Yeah I'm done here. Troll or just incredibly fucking ignorant there's nothing here worth talking about.
okay, I won't try to talk about psychological topics any more but I really cannot comprehend why anyone would do what Hitler did who isn't a sociopath.
I'm sorry but with respect it must be said that you have a very Hollywood, black and white view of why bad men do bad things. In your world it seems to be ''he MUST be insane in some way because I cannot imagine anyone acting that way.'' I don't know what else I can tell you other than that you can do anything with a clean conscience if you think that your cause is just and good and evil are just points of view determined by circumstance.
Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:25 pm
he would have to have been a psychopath because almost every other form of mental illness would leave him with diminished capacity and he would be incapable of planning things out the way he did.
... Yeah I'm done here. Troll or just incredibly fucking ignorant there's nothing here worth talking about.
okay, I won't try to talk about psychological topics any more but I really cannot comprehend why anyone would do what Hitler did who isn't a sociopath.
I'm sorry but with respect it must be said that you have a very Hollywood, black and white view of why bad men do bad things. In your world it seems to be ''he MUST be insane in some way because I cannot imagine anyone acting that way.'' I don't know what else I can tell you other than that you can do anything with a clean conscience if you think that your cause is just and good and evil are just points of view determined by circumstance.
I'm sorry but I just can't imagine anyone with an once of empathy or compassion doing what the greatest monsters in history did. I can accept people who do bad things for the greater good but only if they regret their actions deep down, but think they have to do it. that was obviously not the case with monsters like Hitler.
but anyway, I have been trying to move on to the fictional rebuttal of Chuck saying making a villain a one dimensional monster is inherently a problem and I gave two counter examples.
Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:19 pm
I'm sorry but I just can't imagine anyone with an once of empathy or compassion doing what the greatest monsters in history did. I can accept people who do bad things for the greater good but only if they regret their actions deep down, but think they have to do it. that was obviously not the case with monsters like Hitler.
All you have to do is imagine someone believing they're doing the right thing. The true psychopath simply wouldn't care whether or not that's the case. I'd hazard a guess (which is all it can be since I'm not a psychiartrist) that a psychopath is probably not going to have much of a greater cause than getting whatever he wants, no larger ideals to be pursued, no belief in a cause greater than themselves. AIUI they might not necessarily even go around being nasty to people, they just don't have any problem with being nasty to people if it's in their interest to do so.
but anyway, I have been trying to move on to the fictional rebuttal of Chuck saying making a villain a one dimensional monster is inherently a problem and I gave two counter examples.
It's harder to make a one dimensional monster an interesting villain. If you're writing a simple story where you just want someone for people to boo at and cheer when they're brought down you can have it but it's more interesting when they've got a bit more depth to their motivations. That doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with them in the slightest, an explanation isn't a justification after all.
Wasn't there some criticism by some fool about The Witcher 3 for not making the Bloody Baron a completely one dimensional arsehole but instead someone unpleasant but all too believable, still with a bit of conscience enough to feel guilty yet not enough to hold him back? IMO it made him the most interesting character in the game.
but it is still silly for Chuck to say those things about one dimensional monsters in fiction since Star Trek has had plenty of those already, Mekakon, Rejac, Gorgon, the Borg Queen, Kevis Fajo, Commander Dolim, Dukat(the whole point of of "Waltz" the writers were trying to convey is that Dukat never had redeeming qualities and it was all just an act to manipulate people)
Rewatching some of the reviews I have to disagree with Ezri being the Neelix of the group on Ds9 sure she can be annoying at times and messes up (and this is from someone that likes the character after rewatching)but she only had one season. While Neelix had seven. Basically I think her screwing up is a little bit more tolerable then Neelix's is.
New characters introduced in a long running show's final season are almost always detested by fans. It's a combination of not wanting to spend time on a new character when it's your last chance to enjoy the old characters you've come to know and love, and the final seasons of long running shows usually not being those shows' best.
I dunno I always got the impression Chuck never had a strong affinity for EITHER Dax, she's just kind of the whipping boy in DS9 no matter the incarnation. I think there's even a video where he says picking between them is kind of pointless.
Now, a single season, dovetailing with what many regard as a weak season, is gonna hamper the good that comes from her character. Jadzia just got to roll more dice.
I think more generally it's actually the same way he regards characters (such as they are) like Harry Kim. "Why would you put a loser in your show?", he sees Ezri as a loser because she's an initiate and was never supposed to join in the first place, so one man's "this is what a normal person would have to deal with" is Chuck's "this person only has struggles and no triumphs what's wrong with you?". That rubs off in his jokes against her, so it maybe gives them that cutting edge. Or at least that's how I've read it.
