Trump camps and baby jails

[clearspira]

Humanity is effed up and always has been and there's no light at the end of the tunnel in sight yet, and as far as I can tell, things are only going to get worse before they get better, if they even do at all with the impending climate change disaster.

No. Humanity, for all its flaws, is amazing. We haven't dominated the planet by being effed up. There are 7 billion of us running around now, more than any scientist would have thought possible just a few decades ago, and we've managed that by being clever, empathetic, and cooperative. Sure, we have our darker side, but the better angels of our nature are slowly winning, and have been for a very long time.

On the one hand, I agree with everything you said, especially with the quote about chimpanzees in your next comment. I however want to propose an alternative theory: only SOME humans are great, the rest are being propped up by the achievements of those greats. Most people don't understand hard science e.g. quantum physics, or the secrets of advanced medicine, or how to actually build and program a computer: if there was some catastrophe that ended civilization as we know it, 75% of us wouldn't have a clue as to how to rebuild it.

[Worffan101]

Humanity is effed up and always has been and there's no light at the end of the tunnel in sight yet, and as far as I can tell, things are only going to get worse before they get better, if they even do at all with the impending climate change disaster.

No. Humanity, for all its flaws, is amazing. We haven't dominated the planet by being effed up. There are 7 billion of us running around now, more than any scientist would have thought possible just a few decades ago, and we've managed that by being clever, empathetic, and cooperative. Sure, we have our darker side, but the better angels of our nature are slowly winning, and have been for a very long time.

I dunno, we seem to be heading into a period run by assholes again.

It's kinda like this every time; things look brighter for a bit, then new problems and new assholes show up. And every time the good stuff gets better and the bad stuff gets worse, so frankly, I'm kinda worried about what the world will look like in 20 years because we're about due for another large-scale industrialized genocide.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

ICE is arresting immigrants as soon as they turn 18, even in cases where it's illegal https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/ice- ... l-10651093

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

LittleRaven, your image isn't loading for me. Is that Bezos or Elon Musk?

Neither. It's the first microchip. Bezos and Musk, as capital owners, are beneficiaries of the world automation has created, but they are not what is shifting the world, however much they and other may think so.

I am worried about the extent you will rationalize and defend things. Because once you put toddlers in cages, it's hard to see things going uphill from there.

You act like putting toddlers in cages represents some kind of nadir for humanity. Is it, really?

No, but it IS a pretty sharp indication of what people in this country will deem morally acceptable or handwave/tolerate from our legal authorities, and especially indicative of what we'll excuse I.C.E. for. It's a graphic example of what horrors ICE can commit without being shut down or even reigned in, because they make people who fear brown gangsters and bearded terrorists feel more safe.

I'd argue that, if we had a halfway-functional, decent society, automation and technological improvements would mean increased leisure instead of increased poverty, but then that's late capitalism for you.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Humanity is effed up and always has been and there's no light at the end of the tunnel in sight yet, and as far as I can tell, things are only going to get worse before they get better, if they even do at all with the impending climate change disaster.

No. Humanity, for all its flaws, is amazing. We haven't dominated the planet by being effed up. There are 7 billion of us running around now, more than any scientist would have thought possible just a few decades ago, and we've managed that by being clever, empathetic, and cooperative. Sure, we have our darker side, but the better angels of our nature are slowly winning, and have been for a very long time.

On the one hand, I agree with everything you said, especially with the quote about chimpanzees in your next comment. I however want to propose an alternative theory: only SOME humans are great, the rest are being propped up by the achievements of those greats. Most people don't understand hard science e.g. quantum physics, or the secrets of advanced medicine, or how to actually build and program a computer: if there was some catastrophe that ended civilization as we know it, 75% of us wouldn't have a clue as to how to rebuild it.

You misunderstand the nature of greatness and achievement.

The reason we can have a functioning society is we have the sharing/storage of information and mutual support to allow specialized knowledge of the few to benefit the many. People can tinker with physics and programming and chemotherapy precisely because they aren't lone actors struggling to keep themselves fed, because there are so many other people who toil in the earth and squeeze salmon jizz and decapitate chickens for them. In short, it is our interdependence, not our independence, that allows our species to thrive, and don't sell those who chop wood and fetch water short on account of the academics. This civilization is built and sustained on the backs of the laboring many, not the advanced few.

[LittleRaven]

I however want to propose an alternative theory: only SOME humans are great, the rest are being propped up by the achievements of those greats.

For once, I'm totally with Fuzzy. You have this (almost) exactly backwards.

Stephen Hawking would not have been able to dive into the mysteries of the cosmos without his humble nurses keeping him clean. Paul Erdos expanded mankind's understanding of mathematics by leaps and bounds but could never master the basics of keeping a household. Geniuses move society forward, but they are products of society themselves, and only survive because of it.

There is a reason so few of us are born 'great.' It's because 'great' people are very very expensive for society to maintain. That doesn't mean they aren't valuable - they most certainly are. A society can benefit greatly from having a few of them. But get too many 'great' people, and the society can't maintain them all. At best, their gifts go unrealized. At worst, they rip society apart trying to utilize them.

There is no such thing as the Ubermench. There are just people. Our gifts are all different but our obligation to each other is not. We are all grains of sand on an infinite beach, and every grain matters.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Here's a 5-year old who was detained and signed away her legal rights: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... her-rights

Do you think this is something that happens in non-corrupt institutions, with non-corrupt judges, and non-corrupt administrators? I mean I haven't heard of five-year olds in court waving away their rights at the prompting of the FDA or Guns Tobacco & Firearms.

[Antiboyscout]

Here's a 5-year old who was detained and signed away her legal rights: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... her-rights

Do you think this is something that happens in non-corrupt institutions, with non-corrupt judges, and non-corrupt administrators? I mean I haven't heard of five-year olds in court waving away their rights at the prompting of the FDA or Guns Tobacco & Firearms.

Sorry Fuzzy, but if South Africans can't apply for asylum in In the US/Cannada then Mexicans can't apply ether.

[Yukaphile]

Fuzzy, it's not just people terrified of brown gangsters. I've always said they're a minority, and they are. The problem here is apathy to the highest degree. It's why half the country doesn't vote. People see the world getting worse, and know it's awful, but feel powerless to do a damn thing to stop it, so they just wanna look out for those close to them. That's what happened in Germany. And for me personally. It's why I've stopped voting (didn't vote at all in the midterms even though my mom already has). Let the world go to hell. I just wanna protect and help those close to me. Maybe small kindnesses will be all it takes to change the world. Because when you're kind to someone, they remember. But on the flip side, when you're cruel to someone, they also remember.

[Admiral X]

People don't vote because they've been reduced to a binary illusion of choice and they realize it. They're basically being asked to choose between getting punched in the face or the junk and are just walking away from this "choice."