SG-1: Jolinar's Memories/The Devil You Know

[Wargriffin]

http://sfdebris.com/videos/stargate/sg1s3e12.php


ultimately the problem here... is Apophis return is rather short lived being mostly used to get rid of any other minor major Gou'ald the writers didn't bother developing to make room for Anubis 'Then again as discussed outside of Yu and Baal Gou'ald are pretty much interchangeable

Yeah for all the build up to the Sokar, it felt like the writers were just showing him to say Hey Here he is... Have Apophis back! It almost feels like this was decided on quite late into the development and maybe they were toying with giving Apophis a more fitting send off... note my use of the word 'toying'

Sokar is kinda a proto-Anubis when you think about it in the same vein Set was Proto-Baal

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Huh. I only checked the summarizing remarks at the end, and was surprised by Chuck's conclusion. I felt much more positively about these two as real standout episodes and is generally very well thought of in fandom. Although when I watch it I'm really not judging it by its merits as the conclusion of Sokar's storyline but just as a twoparter. The idea of Sokar was cool, but like so many Goa'uld he doesn't really have all that much of a personality. So as the big baddy behind the scenes I think he works, but to me it does make sense to go with the villain with some personality (as cartoonish as it might be at times) and more importantly with some personal history with SG-1. I do have an affinity for Apophis and his clever, bold, and do-it-yourself style, and his reveal and escape from Sokar is close to his shining hour, so that helps sell the episode for me as well.

Beyond that, I thought the episodes really sold the claustrophobic, hopeless atmosphere in hell. Everyone gets their character moment, and there is some tension and stakes involved here with (seemingly) no rescue in sight. Contra Chuck, I like that they didn't form an alliance with Apophis but used each other when possible while remaining completely at odds.

[Darth Wedgius]

I really enjoyed the episodes, for what it's worth. Maybe I just never developed very high expectations for Sokar.

Apophis saving Carter from Sokar seemed a little too deus ex machina (no pun intended) to me, but I enjoyed the episodes giving a bit more depth to the Sam and Jacob.

[Quixotica]

My biggest issue with these episodes and Sokar himself is really not so much with the episodes themselves but in what they represent; Even back when I watched the series air live, I felt it was a horrible copout how they never brought Judeo-Christian myth into the show's narrative beyond the limp Sokar-is-sortof-the-devil plot. Within the framework of the show the old testament plays out like virtual Stargate fan fiction when you think about the major elements of it; The genocidal, frequently petty, often jealous and spiteful God represented in it, the failed rebellion and resubjugation of Lucifer, even the birth and resurrection of Jesus; it all fit so easily into the Goa'uld mythos it practically wrote itself. But the showrunners were too timid to tread on any popular mythology so this weak two parter (and one earlier Unas story) was all we ever really got.

[Durandal_1707]

^ I was just about to post the same thing. I was waiting with bated breath to see what would happen when they'd eventually have Yahweh show up, and then they chickened out and gave us Satan instead. Bleh.

Incidentally, have you ever read any of the Gnostic writings? I just discovered the Secret Book of John earlier this year, and was gobsmacked that even as early as the second century, people were feeling the need to account for God's Goa'uld-ness.

[FlynnTaggart]

The thing that I thought was a missed opportunity was having Sokar really play into the devil mythology. not just "rar scary guy". From my (limited) understanding some interpretations of Lucifer have him be something of a Prometheus figure who helped humanity. Look at Sokar's world, its industrialized, has roads that even look like they may have cars or some similar vehicle, has the most progress we've seen on any System Lord planet, probably as close to Earth of a planet as we've ever seen under System Lord rule.

I would have loved to explore him some more, make him the big back of the season. Show how he is different from other System Lords. A tyrant, a monster, but also kind to his followers, giving them a standard of living beyond anything anyone else has. His industrialization allowing his rapid rise to power, even technological advancement. The SGC would have to deal with an enemy that learns, whose populations follow him not out of fear but adoration, who is more then just a insane cackling madman.

They tried something similar with Ba'al but I think they even failed with that.

[Deledrius]

I was waiting with bated breath to see what would happen when they'd eventually have Yahweh show up, and then they chickened out and gave us Satan instead. Bleh.

I really felt they were intending to head that way with Kinsey's last appearance, but it was quietly dropped and never seen again.

[PerrySimm]

They tried something similar with Ba'al but I think they even failed with that.

Well, there was that scene in Continuum where Ba'al pulls out the satellite phone. Late SG-1 so rarely surprised, but somehow that approach felt fresh.

[drewder]

Tilk does directly address this once and says that he was aware of no Gould that would be able to imitate the Christian god when they visit a world of Christians.

[Durandal_1707]

^ Yes, I know. The problem is that anyone who's even casually read the Old Testament knows how face-palmingly BS that statement was.