DS9 "The Reckoning"

[Linkara]

Personally, I enjoyed the episode. Aside from just the really good character dynamics throughout the episode, I really enjoyed the effects work on battle between the two forces - great makeup on Jake and got to agree on the contact lenses for Kira making her look stunning. Sisko getting launched as far as he was by the telekinetic blast was pretty impressive, too.

[Yukaphile]

Oh hi Linkara! Loved seeing your work on Channel Awesome. Sad about that, but I support you leaving 100%.

I agree, I think I liked this episode more than Chuck does, though the Sisko sacrificing his son to the Prophets, not so much given the issues I have with them and Sarah Sisko. I think that proves an innocent life means nothing to them, and that Jake Sisko would have been fried if the Pah-wraith was killed.

[clearspira]

Speaking of Sisko getting thrown by that telekinetic blast that brings up a point about DS9 as a whole. The Prophets live outside non-linear time which means that they knew that Sisko was going to fight Dukat and Kira was going to fight Jake. Thus, they knew that Kai Winn was going to stop the fight and they knew that Dukat was going to release the Pah Wraiths and that Sisko was going to be powerless to intervene on both occasions. So he's an idea: how about give Sisko some fricking superpowers as well? The Emissary of the Prophets is just a man. An awesome man willing to punch a Q don't get me wrong, but ultimately, he's a nobody when put up against demigods. And considering the major retcon later on that he is half Prophet there is no excuse for this (turning Sisko into Dylan Hunt from Andromeda was not welcome imo).

I agree with Odo. They're lazy, lazy people. Instead of riddles on old stones, how about some direct help for the guy that you went to great lengths to conceive?

[Yukaphile]

Well, we know the real reason, in that it's a time travel plot, and they're always confusing, especially the more you deviate outside the traditional stable time loop and into the more timey-wimey loopiness.

[Fianna]

The Prophets live outside of linear time, but does that only apply inside the Wormhole? People possessed by wormhole aliens seem to experience everything in linear time. And does that mean the Pah-Wraiths, being trapped in the Fire Caves, are experiencing time linearly, and so the Prophets' efforts against them are literally working on a whole 'nother level.

[bronnt]

This episode only reminds me that the Prophets are probably all raging assholes. Kai Winn is eventually going to side with the Kosst Amojan over the Prophets because....at least the Kosst Amojan will actually talk to her. The Prophets are asking her to operate solely on faith and some guesswork while the Pah Wraiths are actually giving her something to work with.

And it's not as though they only communicate with true believers-they talked directly to, at different points, Jadzia, Grand Nagus Zek, and Quark (among others).

[FlynnTaggart]

I was never a fan of the "gods and demons" stuff of DS9 but did appreciate it for the side stuff, the character stuff. Winn was a villain that you loved to hate, you understood her motives and saw she wasn't evil for the sake of evil. She just was highly self centered, believing what was best for her was what was best for the Prophets, its even understandable her being angry about being upstaged by some alien who wanted no part of this prophecy stuff after she spent the occupation as the head honcho of Bajoran religion, as Chuck alluded to.

Helps make her transition from just antagonist to straight up villainy all the better. I agree with the OP that she should have been them main villain rather then Dukat. Wasn't really a fan of his arc after a point, kinda enjoyed the repentant monster who thought he was doing good, even enjoyed him going nucking futs, not so much the later cult stuff with the Pah Wraiths. Should have either axed him completely or done something better for the character, maybe actual redemption or descent into full on villainy.

[Yukaphile]

I think Winn did the right thing here. Kira, the religious fanatic, thinks she was wrong, and while her reasons were wrong, her actions DID save the life of a young man. I can't blame her for that when Sisko, his so-called father, wasn't doing anything. And yeah, I think their actions with Sarah prove that he would have been dead meat if that Prophet had won.

[jadenova]

I want to know is how did a Prophet and Pah-Wraith get into that stone and into that city. They are non-corporeal beings and can't exist outside of places without some sort of host body. That brings up a theory of mine that the Prophets was using Sisko to set things up for his eventual arrival into the wormhole.

[Deledrius]

Speaking of Sisko getting thrown by that telekinetic blast that brings up a point about DS9 as a whole. The Prophets live outside non-linear time which means that they knew that Sisko was going to fight Dukat and Kira was going to fight Jake. Thus, they knew that Kai Winn was going to stop the fight and they knew that Dukat was going to release the Pah Wraiths and that Sisko was going to be powerless to intervene on both occasions. So he's an idea: how about give Sisko some fricking superpowers as well?

No need. They also know that he successfully defeats the demons just as he is.

Omniscience defies dramatic necessity.