Justice League: Flashpoint

[Wargriffin]

Oh yes, Superman was more human in the DCAU, all right. He was getting knocked into walls, taken out by concrete, and electricity. Really. That's just... sad. For someone who has the biggest rivalry with Goku to the point that even now that Goku's transcended to a cosmic, time-skipping entity and people still think Superman has a shot, I find that hard to believe. The World of Cardboard speech is pure win, don't get me wrong. Just wish it had been in the comics. The DCAU wasn't all that powerful, and I love power and feats porn.

The Rivarly is stupid cause its pointless internet Dick measuring of My favorite is stronger then Your favorite therefore is better that has no meaning to it. The rivalry is this basic definition of Internet shallow brought about by the sudden surge of 90s kids who were introduced to Anime claiming that Shonen heroes were superior to Western heroes.

[RobbyB1982]

Oh yes, Superman was more human in the DCAU, all right. He was getting knocked into walls, taken out by concrete, and electricity. Really. That's just... sad. For someone who has the biggest rivalry with Goku to the point that even now that Goku's transcended to a cosmic, time-skipping entity and people still think Superman has a shot, I find that hard to believe. The World of Cardboard speech is pure win, don't get me wrong. Just wish it had been in the comics. The DCAU wasn't all that powerful, and I love power and feats porn.

The Goku/Superman debate boils down to this. Goku has mostly been written by one writer/team, while Superman has had countless incarnations and hundreds of writers, which means you get different extremes.

Superman, as seen in most media at his normal power levels, the tv shows, cartoons, movies, and most comics, loses pretty readily to Goku. Even early Z Goku around the time he was fighting Vegeta utterly rocks Superman, because those power levels were blowing up mountain ranges and entire cities in single shots and could blow up the planet if they wanted. And once you get to Frieza and Super Saiyan levels it's really no contest, let alone the godly levels that followed from there. The guy that struggles to lift a plane, or fight against robots, or takes a half hour to fly across country, the guy that died against Doomsday, has trouble fighting Krillin or Yamcha, let alone Goku.

Superman, as written by writers who don't understand the implications of what they are writing and just write it to sound cool, breaks all rules and can do literally anything. The guy that is able to travel to the sun and back multiple times in a second, who can fly around the earth so fast he goes back in time, who can benchpress the literal weight of the earth without a struggle and move planets from their orbit, and who can breathe in space and take on black holes, who can go lives in the sun and absorb its power, that guy is so broken as to be beyond anybody's league and Goku is nowhere near him... and really he should have zero problems with any villain or natural disaster.

Basically, both sides are right. Goku easily beats normal Superman as seen in normal media, but if you point to the most ridiculous feats that comics have to offer in all its continuities, then it's no contest at all in Superman's favor.

And if you go with pre-crisis Superman, hoo boy. That guy could literally sneeze and blow up galaxies.

I'd say Goku at the end of Dragonball/start of Z would be a pretty solid match for normal circumstances normally written Superman who has to have a regular comic/show though.

The animated series made the RIGHT choice in bringing Supes' power levels down extremely so that everything in the series could actually be a challenge and so he didn't singlehandedly outclass everyone else combined.


You also see the same sort of thing happen in, say, Doctor Who. Classic doctor tended to have problems with one or two fairly normal guys/aliens, had to talk his way out of most situations, mostly used timetravel to arrive at a location, and nobody ever knew who he was. Nu Who doctor has a sonic screwdriver that can shortcut anything, can destroy entire armadas of millions of Daleks, can move planets and do anything, uses timetravel and paradox to do anything, and is known to billions of lives as the hope of the universe.

So if you ask "Can character X do ____ against the Doctor", classic will get you one result and Nu will get you another. Depending on the writers and the era you're talking about.

[Yukaphile]

Oh yes, Superman was more human in the DCAU, all right. He was getting knocked into walls, taken out by concrete, and electricity. Really. That's just... sad. For someone who has the biggest rivalry with Goku to the point that even now that Goku's transcended to a cosmic, time-skipping entity and people still think Superman has a shot, I find that hard to believe. The World of Cardboard speech is pure win, don't get me wrong. Just wish it had been in the comics. The DCAU wasn't all that powerful, and I love power and feats porn.

The Goku/Superman debate boils down to this. Goku has mostly been written by one writer/team, while Superman has had countless incarnations and hundreds of writers, which means you get different extremes.

Superman, as seen in most media at his normal power levels, the tv shows, cartoons, movies, and most comics, loses pretty readily to Goku. Even early Z Goku around the time he was fighting Vegeta utterly rocks Superman, because those power levels were blowing up mountain ranges and entire cities in single shots and could blow up the planet if they wanted. And once you get to Frieza and Super Saiyan levels it's really no contest, let alone the godly levels that followed from there. The guy that struggles to lift a plane, or fight against robots, or takes a half hour to fly across country, the guy that died against Doomsday, has trouble fighting Krillin or Yamcha, let alone Goku.

Superman, as written by writers who don't understand the implications of what they are writing and just write it to sound cool, breaks all rules and can do literally anything. The guy that is able to travel to the sun and back multiple times in a second, who can fly around the earth so fast he goes back in time, who can benchpress the literal weight of the earth without a struggle and move planets from their orbit, and who can breathe in space and take on black holes, who can go lives in the sun and absorb its power, that guy is so broken as to be beyond anybody's league and Goku is nowhere near him... and really he should have zero problems with any villain or natural disaster.

Basically, both sides are right. Goku easily beats normal Superman as seen in normal media, but if you point to the most ridiculous feats that comics have to offer in all its continuities, then it's no contest at all in Superman's favor.

And if you go with pre-crisis Superman, hoo boy. That guy could literally sneeze and blow up galaxies.

I'd say Goku at the end of Dragonball/start of Z would be a pretty solid match for normal circumstances normally written Superman who has to have a regular comic/show though.

The animated series made the RIGHT choice in bringing Supes' power levels down extremely so that everything in the series could actually be a challenge and so he didn't singlehandedly outclass everyone else combined.


You also see the same sort of thing happen in, say, Doctor Who. Classic doctor tended to have problems with one or two fairly normal guys/aliens, had to talk his way out of most situations, mostly used timetravel to arrive at a location, and nobody ever knew who he was. Nu Who doctor has a sonic screwdriver that can shortcut anything, can destroy entire armadas of millions of Daleks, can move planets and do anything, uses timetravel and paradox to do anything, and is known to billions of lives as the hope of the universe.

So if you ask "Can character X do ____ against the Doctor", classic will get you one result and Nu will get you another. Depending on the writers and the era you're talking about.

I do agree with that line of logic.

[Mickey_Rat15]

So the Question had been fooling around with Huntress with the mask on until now?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

So the Question had been fooling around with Huntress with the mask on until now?

So, was he too ashamed of his face to take it off when naked, or was Huntress all "No...leave it on. 8D"?

[TrueMetis]

All that leather and spandex, Superheroes are kinky.

[Yukaphile]

And beating the shit out of each other too, don't forget that.