Babylon 5: Believers

[Fianna]

Despite early B5's being very heavily influenced by Star Trek, the show was insistent that it really wasn't Star Trek, but, lacking the confidence to be truly original, the only way the show could make that point was to use shock value to petulantly scream 'I'm not like you, daddy...uh...Star Trek' at anyone who would listen.

Hence, dead children.

Didn't Season 1 TNG have that dead little pink-clad girl that Q!Riker let die?

[Cassandra]

Didn't Season 1 TNG have that dead little pink-clad girl that Q!Riker let die?

Yes, but letting a non-speaking child character die from a natural disaster (compounded by the plot of the week) has a lot less shock value than murdering a kid.

[Redem]

Despite early B5's being very heavily influenced by Star Trek, the show was insistent that it really wasn't Star Trek, but, lacking the confidence to be truly original, the only way the show could make that point was to use shock value to petulantly scream 'I'm not like you, daddy...uh...Star Trek' at anyone who would listen.

Hence, dead children.

I think 90% of JMS DVD commentary (at least the first season) on B5 episode were along the line of "Star trek do this this way, well I didn't because...."

[FlynnTaggart]

Someone mentioned earlier taking the kid away from the parent, I wonder what sort of can of worms that would have opened if they explored it. You have both the problems of taking away a kid because of religious beliefs (Franklin didn't know they'd kill their soulless abomination) and possibly the rights of foreign citizens. Even in the real world there is a hubbub about taking away kids from highly religious parents, the parallels with faith based parents allowing their kids to die if not actively helping it with "alternative" medicines which is to medicine like conscience is field of science. Does one allow what amounts to child abuse for religious reasons?

From my understanding of faith healing and all that no-medical procedure stuff is to those who practice it it makes sense. For them the body is temporary, the medicine of man pales in comparison to good. Its better to let the body die then doom the eternal soul, better to put their faith and trust in the higher power then human hands. Doesn't make much sense to me personally but if faith was a hairstyle I'd be bald. To them it makes perfect sense I think, same problems dealing with abortion.

To those pro-abortion (or atleast pro-abortion rights), destroying a lump of cells without a brain, heartbeat, or any qualifiers of being human is no biggie, its not a person, not really alive save what life the parent gives it, once removed it instantly dies because its more like a parasite at that stage then anything. For those pro-life, its about the inherent soul of humanity, its human at conception, imbued with some James Brown at the get go that separates human kind from animals. To kill it is to take a life, to destroy an innocent person. Why I think the two positions are fairly intractable.

But even leaving aside the problems of taking a kid away from parents who may not have their best interest in mind, not even sure Franklin or the B5 staff could take the kid away as he nor the parents were citizens of Earth and presumably not part of any allied species. Treating citizens of another government like that could probably lead to all kinds of problems politically, seeming to imply on B5 the rules of Earth trump those of others. B5 is an Earth station but by its very nature it needs to be open to respecting and accommodating other cultures. Probably not to the "do every dickhead and nonsensical thing our cultures says" sort of cultural accommodation of Trek but respectful nonetheless. Treating someone's deeply held religious beliefs as inferior to the laws and customs of Earth would definitely be something to cause problems.

I just think whatever was going to happen there would be no happy ending.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Despite early B5's being very heavily influenced by Star Trek, the show was insistent that it really wasn't Star Trek, but, lacking the confidence to be truly original, the only way the show could make that point was to use shock value to petulantly scream 'I'm not like you, daddy...uh...Star Trek' at anyone who would listen.

Hence, dead children.

I'm sorry...what? o_0

[SuccubusYuri]

Not to resurrect the soul thing (or, reincarnate it, ha), but even the Minbari are skeptical of the fact that souls are tangible things. Yeah, most of the leads are religious caste, and obligated in that sense, but the warrior caste, even on the Grey Council, are pretty incensed.

The show even implies that it isn't Velen's soul they're reading, but his DNA. Which is why it glows for Delen as well, something Dukat tells her, does not happen.

And with the Soul Hunters, they seem to use, you know, technology for that. Which again could be Clarke's law at play, can you tell the difference between someone's active brain patterns scanned into an energy pattern, and their soul? It's not so weird from crystalized data. And it's certainly not unreasonable for Sinclair to not automatically presume that one CAN harm a soul with...a knife. It would be the craziest homeless rambling version of "Horton Hears a Soul" if Sinclair ran around his fucking medlab based on the word of two civilians, with no credentials to show us, that "EVERYBODY STOP! No more life-saving surgery until we settle this soul issue! I'll issue a proposal to the President immediately to investigate! He'll have to take this seriously!"

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I did like Sinclaire's dillemma here. Maybe it would even be a more interesting story if it was from his point of view? He's basically stuck playing Devil's Advocate, as theologically ironic as that may be.

[Cassandra]

I'm sorry...what? o_0

What I wrote is pretty clear.

The child was written to die in this episode because early B5 relied on shocking twists to differentiate itself from Star Trek.

[Formless One]

Not much to add about this one, but for those who find the idea of the soul leaking out when the body is punctured... well, there are actual Native American tribes with very similar beliefs, and yes it absolutely creates conflicts between the tribes and western doctors. Especially because the real beliefs go the next step and say that your soul can start leaking from even very small puncture wounds, like from a needle. So, you know, they kinda have a problem with any treatment involving needles, probably surgery iirc, and definitely with getting their blood drawn. Admittedly, in those tribes its not an all or nothing deal, your soul is like a substance and you can have some of it leak out without becoming a total zombie, but they still avoid it because they think it could lead to physical or mental health problems.

I don't know if JMS took inspiration directly from these real world beliefs, but I throw that out there to show that its not just Christian sects or whatever whose religious beliefs can come into conflict with western medicine.

[Winter]

Okay, gotta admit not a fan of this episode. Putting the religious themes to the side along with the ideas this episode raises and just looking at it from a completely neutral POV that is just my opinion so please don't curse me into oblivion. The parents are rather bland and a bit unlikable, the kid is really bland and forgettable, (or maybe that was all the alcohol I drank that one New Years Eve soon after watching this episode) and Franklin's smugness was REALLY annoying at the end.

So to sum this up, go check out Scrubs, the entire series to start with because it's a really good show but also the episodes My Half-Acre, My Old Lady, My Super Ego and My Lunch. While I wouldn't call all of these episodes the best in the series, (though My Old Lady is my personal favorite and My Lunch is often ranked as one of the best in the series) I feel that all these episodes handles the concept of B5's Believers much better. It helps that despite Dr. Cox being the most arrogant Doctor and J.D. being overly girly, even by my standards, they're still likable characters who do the best they can in their situation.

Once again this is just looking at this from a neutral view point and while the episodes of Scrubs I listed also deal with religion, patients dying by their own choice and dying children (Happy Thanksgiving (Dear GOD what is wrong with these last THREE YEARS!!!)) the show handles these ideas with maturity while never forgetting it's sense of humor or, more importantly, it's heart.