DS9 "The Reckoning"

[Fianna]

I think it's a case where, because stuff like mind control or possession by incorporeal entities doesn't exist in real life, no one made the connection between it and any sort of real world violation. If you've never heard any accounts of people left traumatized by a body-hijacking, it might not occur to you that having your body hijacked would be a traumatizing experience.

[Durandal_1707]

^ I dunno, the Stargate writers didn't seem to have much trouble figuring that out.

[Fianna]

On SG1, body-hijacking was central to the premise of the show, and so got more thought put into it, as opposed to a detail just thrown into an episode.

[Durandal_1707]

In the last two seasons, the DS9 writers decided to make body-hijacking central to what would become the final arc, so they should have put more thought into it.

[Yukaphile]

Especially since, as I've said, the DS9 writers were very competent at their jobs. They weren't dumb, despite what that guy was trying to peddle.

[chaos42]

The one thing i find interesting here is that this is probably the thing that got the profits to stop talking to wynn as she screwed up this fight, if she hadn't it probably would have made the ending pointless

[Yukaphile]

The Profits? Sound like the aliens that live in the Ferengi wormhole.

[CareerKnight]

Especially since, as I've said, the DS9 writers were very competent at their jobs. They weren't dumb, despite what that guy was trying to peddle.

I didn't say they could do no right just that they have screwed up before, hell they initially thought season 1 Bashir was a good idea.

I think it had to do with their entirely male perspective, and we needed more women in the writing room.

Are... are you implying men can't figure out rape is bad unless a woman points it out to them or just the ds9 writing staff? Don't get me wrong more women writers would have probably helped DS9 (at the very least Let He Who is Without Sin wouldn't have sounded like it was written by a 16 year old boy when it came to sex) but if that's what you meant... well normally I would say that's one of the most bigoted things I have heard recently but compared to something else I heard this week it doesn't even hold a candle. I was a professor talking about what happened during one of his lectures. He was discussing paintings of Jews during the middle ages around the time Europe decided Rome was cool so they didn't want to blame them for the death of Jesus anymore. He was going over a painting of Jesus being arrested in which the Roman soldiers were depicted as extremely anti Semitic stereotypes (complete with weird bone weapons with nails stuck in them) when a woman stood up in his class and angrily shouted that she didn't know where he was going with this because the Jews are like that and the quote a passage from a mistranslated version of the bible about the Jews wanting to murder Jesus. I shared that story cause why should I suffer in revulsion alone.

They even had Sisko comment that she left her "husband," because she got control back. If that's not rape, what is?

I asked you to take Five minutes and think about an alternative because as I said I came up with several in roughly that amount of time and I refuse to believe I'm better at that stuff than you cause I'm not even good at it. Also said I wanted to hold off on going into it more cause this is not that episode but I think that ship has sailed so here is one of them. Lets say the Prophet didn't take possession of Sisko's mother without her permission, after all in this episode the Prophet didn't grab some random bystander, it went for Kira cause she was likely the most willing person on the station and as the Pah Wraiths have shown that isn't a necessary prerequisite. So why did she leave as soon as the possession ended? There are several possibilities given the initial assumption but the one I went with is that the experience overwhelmed her (either because being ok with doing something and still being ok with after its over aren't always the same thing, being out of control of your body for that long is very draining, she wasn't even aware any time had passed during it and it left her very disoriented, or sharing your head for awhile with a highly advanced life form, that also has trouble grasping linear time, takes awhile to sort out) and she needed to get away for awhile. Its entirely possible she was planning to return after she had worked through it but died in that accident.

[Yukaphile]

Hey, the wiki said they wanted Bashir to be super green, so that he could grow as a character. So it was a deliberate choice. You're destroying your own argument there by thinking Season 1 Bashir was bad. It was meant to show how far he'd come.

No, not just that. That this was also the 1990s. It might as well have been the Dark Ages with regards to women's rights and our social awakening. Again, look at how they botched "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night." I'm convinced they could have done a better job with the episode in today's climate, though without descending towards undeserved sympathy towards the lecherous pigs abusing their authority and power over women the way A Woman in Berlin does.

Here's the transcript.

SISKO: Linear or not, I need some answers.
SARAH: The Sisko is intrusive.
SISKO: Are you Sarah Sisko? Are you my mother?
SARAH: Sarah Sisko was corporeal. For a time, I shared her existence.
SISKO: You took over her body, made sure she married my father so that she'd give birth to me.
SARAH: The Sisko is necessary.
SISKO: And once you didn't need her anymore, you left her. No wonder she walked out on my father. She didn't chose him, you did.
SARAH: The Sisko would prefer different answers.
SISKO: What you're telling me isn't easy to accept. You arranged my birth. I exist because of you?

It's a conclusion even Sisko himself comes to, and all you say is "the writers didn't think this through." And then some people wonder why there's this movement to try and put a can on stories that are so blatantly insensitive this way, that treat women as disposable objects without a clear goal or intent in mind? Fuck, take Barbara Gordon in The Killing Joke. She was mutilated, stripped, tortured, possibly assaulted, after she had retired (as far as I know), as a minor subplot to Batman's story, and that was all Alan Moore was ever content to explore with the character. Luckily others picked up the torch. Even Moore himself has gone on to admit he mishandled that. But you do things like this, and the reactionaries complain about how it's SJWs trying to censor everything. If that means we get less "rape as subplot" storylines, then I'm all for it.

[Fianna]

In the last two seasons, the DS9 writers decided to make body-hijacking central to what would become the final arc, so they should have put more thought into it.

Was it central, though? If you removed the "born via a Prophet" detail, how much would really change?