DIS: Vaulting Amition

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, I rewatch DS9 constantly, and this is just a bullshit retcon.

[AlucardNoir]

And here I was, just ready to dive into Thrawn: Aliances and somehow I've lost all interest in all things Force related. I wonder why? Effing force ghosts in my effing Star Trek. Effing mycelial network. Effing light sensitive mirror world humans... sigh, fucking ST:D.

[MrL1992]

After watching this episode, I just have to ask, is the Mirror Universe's sensitivity to light backed up at all by established canon? It really feels like something the producers just pulled out of their ass.

Debateable. Everything was pretty dark during 'In a Mirror, Darkly' and the DS9 episodes. Not so much in 'Mirror, Mirror but you could maybe pass that off because 60s TV was often li tied in its lighting. You can also point to times in which Mirror characters came to the prime universe and this wasn't brought up but possibly medicine advanced and helped them gain tolerance or whatever.

A lot of fan-theory stiff there but with over 50 years of canon, its inevitable.

[Linkara]

I friggin' love this episode and that ending reveal, honestly. I know a lot of fandom had called it, but personally I didn't notice the hints that other people had spotted, like changing the coordinates before they jumped to the Mirror Universe. Him being more aggressive and not a typical Starfleet Captain? Just a different sort of character, possibly even more explained by his trauma (and it's great rewatching that bit with him and the Admiral - it's easy enough to play off his behavior as PTSD, yet it instead fits in so much better with him as part of the Mirror Universe.

Stuff like the Kelpian eating and whatnot... well, I think people got kind of used to the idea of the Terran Empire and the Mirror Universe itself as more of a fun thing, rather than the harsh reality that these are racist, xenophobic fascists who literally invented a method of torture to keep someone in constant pain for hours without rest or possibility of passing out from that pain. Sure, there's fun to be had in hammy performances and whatnot, but the truth is that the day to day running of the Empire was a brutal regime of oppression and, well, evil.

What I actually like about these events in particular is that it KIND OF fits into a version of events in the Mirror Universe if we go from "In a Mirror, Darkly" to "Mirror, Mirror." Hoshi Sato becomes Empress and institutes her own directives, particularly culture and a line of Empresses. The uniforms were less kind to women in particular (I mean, considering the jumpsuits worn by the crew, what's the point of the crop-tops in the Enterprise-Era Mirror Universe?). Suddenly, Hoshi comes in and institutes new policies (I don't think we see ANY alien Mirror Universe officers in these episodes), we see more women Captains in Discovery-era Mirror Universe, and in particular the uniforms are... well, uniforms for both men and women.

After the events of the next episode, the Empress is overthrown and whoever manages to take over in the ensuing power struggle might be a more hardlined traditionalist, returning the Empire to more like it was in the 22nd century before Sato - the uniforms becoming more like the piratewear seen in "Mirror, Mirror," - particularly when it comes to the miniskirts and crop tops. They're more open to aliens in their ranks like during the Enterprise-era (especially if the rebellion has been crushed by that point).

[CrypticMirror]

I have missed Captain Insaneway, it seems like it has been so long since we saw her.

As for Discovery, I just can't get into it. It is like they took everything in Star Trek (and in tv generally) that I hate and shoved it all into one show. Why must tv always disappoint me?

[MyUserName]

It's a really small thing, but as a long time fan and admirer of Michelle Yeoh, I love how smooth and fast her movements are in the few moments of action she has. Even after all these years she's still got it.

Other than that, meh. It's discovery, where the only thing being discovered is how goofy this show can get.

I've been going through TNG season 7 on Netflix. And despite how goofy some of the initial setup of some of those plots were, there was still the typical TNG sense of intelligence and character work at play that make them worth watching. If only Discovery could be half as intelligent, they wouldn't be struggling to find an audience.

[Archanubis]

What I actually like about these events in particular is that it KIND OF fits into a version of events in the Mirror Universe if we go from "In a Mirror, Darkly" to "Mirror, Mirror." Hoshi Sato becomes Empress and institutes her own directives, particularly culture and a line of Empresses. The uniforms were less kind to women in particular (I mean, considering the jumpsuits worn by the crew, what's the point of the crop-tops in the Enterprise-Era Mirror Universe?). Suddenly, Hoshi comes in and institutes new policies (I don't think we see ANY alien Mirror Universe officers in these episodes), we see more women Captains in Discovery-era Mirror Universe, and in particular the uniforms are... well, uniforms for both men and women.

After the events of the next episode, the Empress is overthrown and whoever manages to take over in the ensuing power struggle might be a more hardlined traditionalist, returning the Empire to more like it was in the 22nd century before Sato - the uniforms becoming more like the piratewear seen in "Mirror, Mirror," - particularly when it comes to the miniskirts and crop tops. They're more open to aliens in their ranks like during the Enterprise-era (especially if the rebellion has been crushed by that point).

Well, they'd have to explain how Spock was the second-in-command of the Enterprise and was capable of rising to power in the Empire and make reforms that will leave it vulnerable to the Cardassian-Klingon Alliance. (Hey, Discovery, you remember *that* little bit, or are you still treating DS9 as the red-headed stepchild of Star Trek?)

[bronnt]

It's a really small thing, but as a long time fan and admirer of Michelle Yeoh, I love how smooth and fast her movements are in the few moments of action she has. Even after all these years she's still got it.

Other than that, meh. It's discovery, where the only thing being discovered is how goofy this show can get.

I've been going through TNG season 7 on Netflix. And despite how goofy some of the initial setup of some of those plots were, there was still the typical TNG sense of intelligence and character work at play that make them worth watching. If only Discovery could be half as intelligent, they wouldn't be struggling to find an audience.

You can also get away with some ridiculousness and ass-pull plots once your characters are well established and the audience already likes them. Genesis, if it had been in Season 1, might have been the worst episode of Trek ever. Instead, it's a ridiculous premise with piss-poor execution, but we're invested in the characters dealing with this crap, so even as things descend into madness we can recognize the characters we like still doing things in the story.

It's a bit less forgivable that everyone had family coming out of the woodworks-Worf's unmentioned stepbrother, Deanna's unmentioned dead sister, Beverly's never mentioned before grandmother, Picard's (fake) son, and Data's never-seen-before mother. The only one that's forgivable is Geordi's mom, since his family had basically never been mentioned before and the episode was actually strongly focused on his character growth.

[bronnt]

Well, they'd have to explain how Spock was the second-in-command of the Enterprise and was capable of rising to power in the Empire and make reforms that will leave it vulnerable to the Cardassian-Klingon Alliance. (Hey, Discovery, you remember *that* little bit, or are you still treating DS9 as the red-headed stepchild of Star Trek?)

To be fair, almost nobody gave a crap about the DS9 mirror universe stories aside from the novelty. I don't know how many people will really cry foul if the lore of the mirror universe is retconned as long as it's not too ridiculous.

[Archanubis]

It's a bit less forgivable that everyone had family coming out of the woodworks-Worf's unmentioned stepbrother, Deanna's unmentioned dead sister, Beverly's never mentioned before grandmother, Picard's (fake) son, and Data's never-seen-before mother. The only one that's forgivable is Geordi's mom, since his family had basically never been mentioned before and the episode was actually strongly focused on his character growth.

Worf's stepbrother had actually been mentioned in the Season 1 episode "Heart of Glory;" it just took until season 7 that the writers actually remembered him (not that anyone can blame them for forgetting Season 1 happened).