How would you fix Star Trek?

[Yukaphile]

Can't we be the human tribe, then, and not... this divided? It's stupid. Let us face the universe together, as a united people, to really see what's out there.

[Karha of Honor]

Can't we be the human tribe, then, and not... this divided? It's stupid. Let us face the universe together, as a united people, to really see what's out there.

Why is it stupid exactly?

Not much out there compared to down here.

[Yukaphile]

You have no idea whether that's true or not. If there's other sentient species out there, or other animal life. And we need to face it as a united people.

[Madner Kami]

You have no idea whether that's true or not. If there's other sentient species out there, or other animal life. And we need to face it as a united people.

No, we don't. Strife between us is what got us where we are in the first place. We expanded because we weren't happy with the place we were at. We got to space because one evil wanted to drop bombs onto another evil and lateron, because two superpowers wanted to oneup each other. The true art lies in channeling that competativeness into progress for all humanity, not in removing it. I find it notably wierd that you do not understand that concept, given you quote Kreia so freely in your signature, who comments on exactly this with her words.

[Yukaphile]

Thought you were ignoring me?

More like pettiness and greed and stuff like toxic masculinity got us here. We went to space because it was a big dick-measuring contest between the USSR and US. Yeah, the scientists did actual work, but it was man's need to conquer and win or seize mates that drove it, and we're slowly destroying the very environment that first spawned us and sustains us right now. I do agree conflict, however, is inherently self-revealing, whether that's a war or something as simple as a family argument. But it's also showed us that human beings have a tendency to be a very dysfunctional species, and in large numbers too, with some potential perhaps, but a lot of growth still yet to achieve. I put that quote in my sig as as a mockery of conflict, because in my view, more often than not, people show their worst sides, their ugly natures, than the goodness. If I could do away with conflict to create a happy world, I would.

I mean, look at how we are failing to measure up as a nation, because no one can agree on freaking ANYTHING! Reminds me of that old scene from My Fellow Americans.

"The voice of the people? There is no such thing. You got 240 million voices all yelling for something different. The only thing you all seem to agree on is you don't want higher taxes. The voice of the people, my fanny!"

[Karha of Honor]

You have no idea whether that's true or not. If there's other sentient species out there, or other animal life. And we need to face it as a united people.

You could be a right winger who was brainwashed by the left wing Mojo Jojo in a lab. You don't know that for sure but you should send me 10000 dollars to work on a project to deprogram others.

I don't like the black box argument.

Thought you were ignoring me?

More like pettiness and greed and stuff like toxic masculinity got us here. We went to space because it was a big dick-measuring contest between the USSR and US. Yeah, the scientists did actual work, but it was man's need to conquer and win or seize mates that drove it, and we're slowly destroying the very environment that first spawned us and sustains us right now. I do agree conflict, however, is inherently self-revealing, whether that's a war or something as simple as a family argument. But it's also showed us that human beings have a tendency to be a very dysfunctional species, and in large numbers too, with some potential perhaps, but a lot of growth still yet to achieve. I put that quote in my sig as as a mockery of conflict, because in my view, more often than not, people show their worst sides, their ugly natures, than the goodness. If I could do away with conflict to create a happy world, I would.

I mean, look at how we are failing to measure up as a nation, because no one can agree on freaking ANYTHING! Reminds me of that old scene from My Fellow Americans.

"The voice of the people? There is no such thing. You got 240 million voices all yelling for something different. The only thing you all seem to agree on is you don't want higher taxes. The voice of the people, my fanny!"

Agreeing led to Iraq, so i think some disagreement is healthy.

From a historical pov people agree more than ever. Regional identities are weaker, people send their chidren to schools and accept it as a price of employment, they managed to prop u[ the giant military budget so far...

I could go on and on.

[CmdrKing]

No, we don't. Strife between us is what got us where we are in the first place. We expanded because we weren't happy with the place we were at. We got to space because one evil wanted to drop bombs onto another evil and lateron, because two superpowers wanted to oneup each other. The true art lies in channeling that competativeness into progress for all humanity, not in removing it. I find it notably wierd that you do not understand that concept, given you quote Kreia so freely in your signature, who comments on exactly this with her words.

This strikes me as profoundly nihilistic. Progress necessarily comes from seeking dominance, and leaves a mountain of corpses? While that can happen, and many discoveries are a byproduct of war, they're just that: byproducts. Science is expensive and takes resources. And sometimes when militaries dump money into it, they have to invent useful things to get to the killing.

But let's back up a minute. You can parse the desire for a better life as a form of competition I guess, but that's not the same thing as "strife" driving people to expand and explore. It's not always persecution that leads to mass migration. Natural disasters and famine happen, especially in prehistory it's highly likely that agriculture wrecked the land after a generation (less really, but anyway) until people figured out crop rotation. There's a reason nomadic societies have happened throughout history. Trade across continents has been shown to exist before recorded history. Once society becomes stable, a certain personality type seeks novelty. The drives that rise from basic curiosity, the need to explore, gather knowledge, and even go "hey I wonder if this plant will kill me" are completely separate from any tribal motive.
And realistically, without those motives, no amount of competition will produce meaningful results. Like I said, science is expensive. And it's collaborative. One person cannot invent the space ship, we've advanced too far for any one breakthrough to have immediate application. sinking resources into such things means not devoting them to the money sink that is warfare and other international pissing contests like tariffs or whatever the heck.

Like. That's what Star Trek was about y'all. Start to finish, it's creating a future in which mankind can devote their resources to exploration, discovery, and scientific progress, where people have the means to pursue their talents, not sink a lifetime into make-work bullshit to survive.

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, the future pursuit of humanity should be to eliminate conflict and then devote yourself to things like exploration, discovery, and science, but also art, imagination, creativity, and stuff like making love, not war. If only.

[MithrandirOlorin]

I wouldn't, I put it out of it's misery.

It served it's purpose, but now it's time to move on.

[Karha of Honor]

Yeah, the future pursuit of humanity should be to eliminate conflict and then devote yourself to things like exploration, discovery, and science, but also art, imagination, creativity, and stuff like making love, not war. If only.

We almost eliminated it already.

What if i am legit not smart enough to grasp that. Wanna have a simple job, punch a clock, play sports once a week, fuck a wife and watch reality shows and action movies?