She-Ra and the Princesses of Power

[Worffan101]

Lumberjanes skewed even younger and had transgender characters there which is bloody sickening.

Aaand this is where I stop engaging with you, but I really shouldn't have responded this far. Young trans people exist. They are not "sickening".

Agree to Disagree, Children should be allowed to be children. Not forced to be something they are not. I wouldn't ask a teen who has gone through puberty to be straight if they think they are gay, I wouldn't ask a child with no framework for a practical conception of sexuality to identify as anything other than a child. I could argue further, but I don't see a point.

That's a great point! So why shouldn't we let trans kids present as the gender they identify with? I mean, you JUST SAID that kids shouldn't be forced to be something they're not, right? And trans people, like gay people, exist because of minor genetic changes on the sex chromosomes, so it's not like you can /stop/ being trans.

I mean, if you don't let trans kids present as the gender they identify with, then you're kind of just being a raging hypocrite. Right?

I just put that guy on ignore the moment I realized the sort of attitudes he was posting. Sure it won't stop him from posting it but at least I won't have to view it. I'm hoping that if everybody does that he'll go away, since he'll have nobody to debate.

I like my way better.

[MightyDavidson]

Lumberjanes skewed even younger and had transgender characters there which is bloody sickening.

Aaand this is where I stop engaging with you, but I really shouldn't have responded this far. Young trans people exist. They are not "sickening".

Agree to Disagree, Children should be allowed to be children. Not forced to be something they are not. I wouldn't ask a teen who has gone through puberty to be straight if they think they are gay, I wouldn't ask a child with no framework for a practical conception of sexuality to identify as anything other than a child. I could argue further, but I don't see a point.

That's a great point! So why shouldn't we let trans kids present as the gender they identify with? I mean, you JUST SAID that kids shouldn't be forced to be something they're not, right? And trans people, like gay people, exist because of minor genetic changes on the sex chromosomes, so it's not like you can /stop/ being trans.

I mean, if you don't let trans kids present as the gender they identify with, then you're kind of just being a raging hypocrite. Right?

I just put that guy on ignore the moment I realized the sort of attitudes he was posting. Sure it won't stop him from posting it but at least I won't have to view it. I'm hoping that if everybody does that he'll go away, since he'll have nobody to debate.

I like my way better.

To each their own.

[MyUserName]

Speaking on a genetic level, Children need to be taught to be children, to laugh, have fun, and yes, accept the gender they were born as. After puberty and maturity sets in if they feel they need to pursue an alternate lifestyle, thats their onus.

Wait, you're saying we should let kids /fully transition before they go through puberty/? That seems a bit much, we should just let them /present/ whatever way they prefer, they're kids after all.

I do agree, though, that children should be allowed to embrace the gender they were born identifying with rather than the one they were assigned by some nurse at a hospital.

The problem with your argument is that it applies an adults understanding of sexuality to children, who have scarcely begun to truly own their own needs and are dependent on their parents and caregivers for their identity and needs. Even the most mindful and willful of children is still dependent for their knowledge and understanding of the world on their environment and parents. Attempting to apply or indoctrinate them with knowledge they are genetically and fundamentally ill equipped to handle, and to teach them not to accept who they are and what they were born as, is nothing more than abuse.

Yes, children should be allowed to embrace whatever gender presentation they so choose, not pigeonholed into a blue or pink box. Well said.

While I accept other adults and young adults right to live their lives as they see fit. Children however must be led and guided until they are prepared to start taking responsibility. Not taught to change what they are, but accept who they are, and what they were born as. That includes Gender. Yeah, any LGBTQ supporters offended by that, Not sorry.

Yeah, why would pro-LGBT people be offended by that? All you're saying is that trans kids should be allowed to embrace themselves rather than be forced to pretend they're the gender that "matches" their genitalia. Which, seems kind of like an infringement of adult understandings of sex and sexuality upon a child's business.

Doesn't it?



So glad to find people willing to stand up for trans rights here on the cesspool known as the Internet.

I'll say it again, you are abdicating an adults responsibility to teach and lead, and assigning trans agenda's to children who are just starting and learning about their lives. I would consider this an extreme case of psychological abuse and a abandonment of responsibility for an adults role.

In other words, you've pretty much confirmed that children who feel they are trans are victims and in need of help and rescuing. Thank you for making my point.

[MyUserName]

Lumberjanes skewed even younger and had transgender characters there which is bloody sickening.

Aaand this is where I stop engaging with you, but I really shouldn't have responded this far. Young trans people exist. They are not "sickening".

Agree to Disagree, Children should be allowed to be children. Not forced to be something they are not. I wouldn't ask a teen who has gone through puberty to be straight if they think they are gay, I wouldn't ask a child with no framework for a practical conception of sexuality to identify as anything other than a child. I could argue further, but I don't see a point.

That's a great point! So why shouldn't we let trans kids present as the gender they identify with? I mean, you JUST SAID that kids shouldn't be forced to be something they're not, right? And trans people, like gay people, exist because of minor genetic changes on the sex chromosomes, so it's not like you can /stop/ being trans.

I mean, if you don't let trans kids present as the gender they identify with, then you're kind of just being a raging hypocrite. Right?

I just put that guy on ignore the moment I realized the sort of attitudes he was posting. Sure it won't stop him from posting it but at least I won't have to view it. I'm hoping that if everybody does that he'll go away, since he'll have nobody to debate.

I know he can't see this, but the point should be made.

GOD forbid that those who screech for diversity and acceptance should practice accepting diverse arguments that disagree with them. I mean... what would such a concept lead too? SANITY! Rationality! Empathy and Respect! It would be Bedlam I tell you. Utter chaos made manifest before our unbelieving gaze! Doom upon he who would even think such deviance.

Am I laying it on too thick?

[Worffan101]

I'll say it again, you are abdicating an adults responsibility to teach and lead, and assigning trans agenda's to children who are just starting and learning about their lives. I would consider this an extreme case of psychological abuse and a abandonment of responsibility for an adults role.

In other words, you've pretty much confirmed that children who feel they are trans are victims and in need of help and rescuing. Thank you for making my point.

Um, I'm not, maybe you're confusing the way I'm explaining the transphobic agenda with my actual point of view?

And yes, trans kids ARE victims. Victims of a society that forces them to be pigeonholed into a blue or pink box based on that shape their genitals take, when little kids really shouldn't give a shit about their genitalia unless they have to pee. That's a bold but not unreasonable statement--and a stark reminder of how badly we need to raise awareness of trans issues and help trans kids embrace themselves.

[MyUserName]

I'll say it again, you are abdicating an adults responsibility to teach and lead, and assigning trans agenda's to children who are just starting and learning about their lives. I would consider this an extreme case of psychological abuse and a abandonment of responsibility for an adults role.

In other words, you've pretty much confirmed that children who feel they are trans are victims and in need of help and rescuing. Thank you for making my point.

Um, I'm not, maybe you're confusing the way I'm explaining the transphobic agenda with my actual point of view?

And yes, trans kids ARE victims. Victims of a society that forces them to be pigeonholed into a blue or pink box based on that shape their genitals take, when little kids really shouldn't give a shit about their genitalia unless they have to pee. That's a bold but not unreasonable statement--and a stark reminder of how badly we need to raise awareness of trans issues and help trans kids embrace themselves.

Thats pretty much saying that epochs of child raising wisdom has proven incorrect and that only todays generation has the knowledge needed. Which many would argue could be seen as a sign of sociopathic tendencies to rail against society in such a violent way. Not to say that societal change is not necessary and needed, but to break so thoroughly with wisdom that has proven very constructive is an act born out of destructive tendencies. Which is very much how I view the radical left and why I suggested leaving the topic alone.

However, applying Occam's Razor, I find it easier to believe that children, living in a society where many of their fathers have drunk the kool aid of modern neo-feminism, not to be confused with actual feminism, and feel that masculinity is toxic, are confused by the messages of the adult world around them and thus, without positive and strong gender role models, act in the self hating way their environment tells them too.

[Worffan101]

Thats pretty much saying that epochs of child raising wisdom has proven incorrect and that only todays generation has the knowledge needed. Which many would argue could be seen as a sign of sociopathic tendencies to rail against society in such a violent way. Not to say that societal change is not necessary and needed, but to break so thoroughly with wisdom that has proven very constructive is an act born out of destructive tendencies. Which is very much how I view the radical left and why I suggested leaving the topic alone.

Um...yeah? Older methods of force-them-into-the-box child-rearing HAVE caused serious emotional harm to generation upon generation of kids. We need to eradicate those aspects of traditional child-rearing, and who cares what some old fuddy-duddy idiots mindlessly worshipping "the way things used to be" say?

And I don't really think this is all that radically leftist, it's not like we're advocating for the overthrow of society and its replacement by something run by literal children here.

However, applying Occam's Razor, I find it easier to believe that children, living in a society where many of their fathers have drunk the kool aid of modern neo-feminism, not to be confused with actual feminism, and feel that masculinity is toxic, are confused by the messages of the adult world around them and thus, without positive and strong gender role models, act in the self hating way their environment tells them too.

Yeah, TERFs are a pain in the ass, I know. How they call themselves "feminists" when they seek to rigidly enforce gender separation and a gender binary like fucking Puritans is beyond me.

We need good role models for kids, who embrace LGBT issues and show kids that they don't need to hate themselves for being gay or trans or whatever and it's normal and OK to be LGBT. And that's part of why I find this show really nice; they're telling millions of little girls who don't really know why they like their best friends' hair or wrists or whatever that it's OK to be kind of flustered and fascinated by said best friends, and there's nothing wrong with them. That represents a real step forwards!

Now we just need this for trans kids.

[CmdrKing]

It’s kinda adorable that so many people think 3rd and 4th wave feminism are less tolerant of men than the 2nd wavers. ‘Course, reverence of the past does lead to pretending it said the things you want it to.

Which of course is why the entire line of argument is hogwash. Pretending that gender roles have always been what they are, have always been enforced via abuse, or that homosexuality and gender identity are new constructs or “used to be” universally beaten out of people across all cultures is provably wrong.

Of course, that doesn’t matter. What matters is any kid who figures out their gender doesn’t match their assigned sex before puberty is a goddamned super hero in the making. And you think dimming them with wrong puberty, trying to make them easier to identify, or disciplining it out of them will stop them from being among the most creative, indominitable, and potent people of their generation? Fat chance.

Impoverishing our culture by trying to hold back queer kids is both foolish and futile. Try fixing your heart and squeeing over Catra instead.

[Karha of Honor]

It’s kinda adorable that so many people think 3rd and 4th wave feminism are less tolerant of men than the 2nd wavers. ‘Course, reverence of the past does lead to pretending it said the things you want it to.

Which of course is why the entire line of argument is hogwash. Pretending that gender roles have always been what they are, have always been enforced via abuse, or that homosexuality and gender identity are new constructs or “used to be” universally beaten out of people across all cultures is provably wrong.

Of course, that doesn’t matter. What matters is any kid who figures out their gender doesn’t match their assigned sex before puberty is a goddamned super hero in the making. And you think dimming them with wrong puberty, trying to make them easier to identify, or disciplining it out of them will stop them from being among the most creative, indominitable, and potent people of their generation? Fat chance.

Impoverishing our culture by trying to hold back queer kids is both foolish and futile. Try fixing your heart and squeeing over Catra instead.

Gender roles were what they were minus some amazons because substinence farming is hard goddam fucking work, going to war with a sword or the mustket is the scariest fucking thing on Earth and that shit is heavy and carrying everything needed for war is also heavy today that requires strenght.

Lumberjanes skewed even younger and had transgender characters there which is bloody sickening.

Aaand this is where I stop engaging with you, but I really shouldn't have responded this far. Young trans people exist. They are not "sickening".

Agree to Disagree, Children should be allowed to be children. Not forced to be something they are not. I wouldn't ask a teen who has gone through puberty to be straight if they think they are gay, I wouldn't ask a child with no framework for a practical conception of sexuality to identify as anything other than a child. I could argue further, but I don't see a point.

That's a great point! So why shouldn't we let trans kids present as the gender they identify with? I mean, you JUST SAID that kids shouldn't be forced to be something they're not, right? And trans people, like gay people, exist because of minor genetic changes on the sex chromosomes, so it's not like you can /stop/ being trans.

I mean, if you don't let trans kids present as the gender they identify with, then you're kind of just being a raging hypocrite. Right?

I just put that guy on ignore the moment I realized the sort of attitudes he was posting. Sure it won't stop him from posting it but at least I won't have to view it. I'm hoping that if everybody does that he'll go away, since he'll have nobody to debate.

Convince me. Why should i put him on ignore?

[Riedquat]

I just put that guy on ignore the moment I realized the sort of attitudes he was posting. Sure it won't stop him from posting it but at least I won't have to view it. I'm hoping that if everybody does that he'll go away, since he'll have nobody to debate.

Convince me. Why should i put him on ignore?

Quite. I've not seen him say anything terrible. What I have seen is people getting worked up when someone challenges their assumptions. I don't 100% agree with everything he's saying but I think he's got a good point. Why do we look after children and not let them run off doing whatever they feel like? On the other hand why is keeping them on a very short leash unhealthy too? Children are children, not men or women and it's not until they're a bit older - i.e. adults - that they're really in a position to take responsibility for themselves and realise what they really are.

Before then a bit of curiosity is probably quite common and certainly shouldn't be demonised or criticsed but part of becoming an adult is realising whether it was just curiosity or what you really are. Until then no-one really is straight, gay, tran or anything else, their sexuality simply cannot be said with certainty until it's fully developed. To try to fix it earlier is doing people a serious disservice, whether it's trying to persuade someone who'll eventually turn out to be gay to be straight, or trying to tell someone that they're not straight simply because they're still exploring what their sexuality is and have a bit of curiosity. Leave them to work it out themselves, don't put any sexuality label on anyone not old enough to be certain themselves.