Batman: Mask of the Phantasm

[Trooper924]

There’s a moment in Mask of the Phantasm that reminds me a bit of All-Star Superman. That series is more complete, but both contain a scene that is utterly definitive of both characters.
This is that moment for Supes: https://goo.gl/images/EujqZM

For Bats? Bruce Wayne, storm surging around him as he begs, on his knees, at the foot of his parent’s grave. Begs for permission. To stop, to be happen. To hear at last that he is forgiven, and has done enough.
He can never hear those words, and that’s why he does it. Goes out night after night. Devotes his every waking moment to the never-ending battle. Never gives up, never sells himself out.
It can never be enough, because the only ones who could say it will never speak again.

Its interesting to think about that scene in the context of comic stories like the Button where you have alternate universe Thomas Wayne begging Bruce to give up being Batman and for him to embrace being a father in way Thomas couldn't.

You know, I've never really cared for the idea that Bruce's parents would be completely aghast at him being Batman. Sure, him running around in a bat costume and punching people in the face isn't really something you'd want your son to be doing, but I feel like it ignores and downplays all the good Batman has done for Gotham. The city is a much better place than it was when they were alive.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

So much great material involving this incarnation of Batman. TAS, this film, Justice League Unlimited, Batman Beyond... and those behind the DC film universe still wonders why everyone regards their films as crap. Did you genuinely think that we wanted the Batman you gave us? Some crazed psycho who uses guns and cries when his mother's name is mentioned? You genuinely thought that when the animated Batman has so much critical acclaim even after twenty plus years?
Lol. Say what you like about Marvel, but they were soaring off into the sunset in a gold-plated Ferrari whilst DC were still trying to jump start their Yugo.

I liked Bruce Wayne in the Nolan series. You see, Spiderman is just Peter Parker with a mask on to protect Peter Parker. Nolan's Bruce Wayne though is just Batman with a mask off to protect Batman. Makes ya think.

[Alinis]

I have to admit the version of batman used in Mask of the Phantasm/batman the animated series/Justice league is pretty much one of my favorite versions of batman along with the Adam West batman and the silver age comic batman.

[TrueMetis]

There’s a moment in Mask of the Phantasm that reminds me a bit of All-Star Superman. That series is more complete, but both contain a scene that is utterly definitive of both characters.
This is that moment for Supes: https://goo.gl/images/EujqZM

For Bats? Bruce Wayne, storm surging around him as he begs, on his knees, at the foot of his parent’s grave. Begs for permission. To stop, to be happen. To hear at last that he is forgiven, and has done enough.
He can never hear those words, and that’s why he does it. Goes out night after night. Devotes his every waking moment to the never-ending battle. Never gives up, never sells himself out.
It can never be enough, because the only ones who could say it will never speak again.

Its interesting to think about that scene in the context of comic stories like the Button where you have alternate universe Thomas Wayne begging Bruce to give up being Batman and for him to embrace being a father in way Thomas couldn't.

You know, I've never really cared for the idea that Bruce's parents would be completely aghast at him being Batman. Sure, him running around in a bat costume and punching people in the face isn't really something you'd want your son to be doing, but I feel like it ignores and downplays all the good Batman has done for Gotham. The city is a much better place than it was when they were alive.

There's also that Bruce is a massive philanthropist in most modern continuities. Gotham's just so fucked there's only so much that can do. Hard to be aghast at the idea that you're son's like the most charitable person in the world. Unless they really want to change Bruce's parents characterization a lot.

So much great material involving this incarnation of Batman. TAS, this film, Justice League Unlimited, Batman Beyond... and those behind the DC film universe still wonders why everyone regards their films as crap. Did you genuinely think that we wanted the Batman you gave us? Some crazed psycho who uses guns and cries when his mother's name is mentioned? You genuinely thought that when the animated Batman has so much critical acclaim even after twenty plus years?
Lol. Say what you like about Marvel, but they were soaring off into the sunset in a gold-plated Ferrari whilst DC were still trying to jump start their Yugo.

I liked Bruce Wayne in the Nolan series. You see, Spiderman is just Peter Parker with a mask on to protect Peter Parker. Nolan's Bruce Wayne though is just Batman with a mask off to protect Batman. Makes ya think.

That came up to a degree in the DCAU, and in the Keaton movie and quite a few comics. IE in one of the Batman Beyond episodes, that Chuck reviewed as I recall, the bad guy attempts to drive Bruce insane by pretending to be a voice in his head, but refers to Bruce as Bruce, but Bruce doesn't think of himself as Bruce. In his head he's still Batman.

Bruce is the mask, Batman is the person is hardly a new interpretation. That's not "Nolan's" Batman, that's just Batman.

[Wargriffin]

You see I don't mind TAS Batman's notion that Batman is the real person, Bruce is a mask deal cause its nowhere near the extreme it goes in the comics

IE TAS Batman is still a good human person 'He's relationship with the batfamily not withstanding'

I don't really agree with the notion but its atleast moderated here with the concept its suppose to be tragic at its core.


youtu.be/TZqITKyYHXQ


"I had to save them both. You see, I'm both Bruce Wayne and Batman. Not because I have to be, now...because I choose to be."

[ArchaonTheEverchosen]

If i remember right, Andrea last appearance was in JLU: Epilogue where she was hired by Amanda Waller to kill Terry's parents so he can become the new Batman but in the end she refused to go through with it. I remember Chuck review that episode and also said that he gonna talk about Andrea more for the following month but then nothing happen.

[Trooper924]

With all this "Bruce Wayne is the mask" talk, I feel it worth mentioning the "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive" storyline which was explicitly written to challenge this conceit by putting Batman in a scenario where he gives up being Bruce. After claiming that Bruce isn't real, pretty much everybody in the Bat Family is appalled by him--Dick Grayson actually punches him--and in the end after going through hell, Bruce concludes:

"I thought the real Bruce Wayne was that happy child of memory...But now that everything has stripped away from him, I realize that mask is not Bruce...not at all. I am Bruce Wayne. I always have been."

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yes, Nolan did not "invent" it. One of the first TAS episodes has Batman in chipper Bruce voice when he's on the phone in the batcave in full suit, and it's obviously done for the lols. No doubt the comics did it.

And in the vein of the contrary, the last moment of Return of the Joker has Bruce telling Terry that "you're what makes Batman worthwhile," and not the other way around. It is worth mentioning too, as this does come off as a reaffirmation; something Bruce innately felt Terry needed to hear.

Chuck said it's great, and I agree. But there's also a video of Kevin Conroy saying that, while the batvoice was indeed weird, Bale absolutely nailed the Bruce Wayne, bringing up American Psycho as a reference point.

[Yukaphile]

Nolan was basically paying homage to, but also reinventing and reinterpreting the most well-known aspects of the mythos. So you're technically right.

[RobbyB1982]

Also, can't help but notice- and not for the first time- that Andrea is basically Selina Kyle (or at least, B:TAS Selina Kyle) if she had a happier home life and wasn't moonlighting as a costumed cat burglar (and, even then, she ends up "costumed serial killer" instead. They even look pretty similar.

That's a failing of Bruce Timm. ALL his women look identical aside from a handful of badguy outliers. If you look at lineart and don't have hair colors to go by, it's impossible to tell the different between Selina Kyla, Barbara Gordon, Lana Lang, Hawkgirl, Harley Quinn, and Martha Kent. He mostly gets by with their costumes looking super distinct, but out of costume they all have identical faces and body types.

His guys are pretty similar too, but they'll get differing cheek bones, jaw lines, styles of eyes, and sometimes facial hair.

This is an extremely common problem in comics and animation, (just look at how samey all the disney princesses are) and the pattern mostly broken when you have female lead creators like on Steven Universe or new She-Ra who emphasize different body types and faces, but it's extremely pronounced in Timm's work.