How badly is Star Trek Galaxy going to suck?

[Madner Kami]

Exactly. But the 1990s was different. The economy was doing well, there were not quite as many social problems as today, and our military was at its lowest alert with the end of the Cold War. I miss those times.

Good joke. Lemme guess, you grew up in the 90s? Born late 80s or early 90s?

Oh those precious times, when there was the Afghan Civil War, the Eelam Wars in Sri Lanka, constant bombings in Northern Ireland and the Basque lands, both the Chechnian Wars, the joyous events that were the foundation for a great movie called Black Hawk Down in the economically oh so well off and peaceful area of Somalia... oh wait no, that was a Civil War as well, the Angolan Civil War, the Rwandan Civil War, the Croatian's War for indepence, the genocide in East Timor and pretty much everything that happened in Yugoslavia and so on and on and on.

Everything and everybody was happy and well off. Yeah, I miss those times as well.

[Riedquat]

Exactly. But the 1990s was different. The economy was doing well, there were not quite as many social problems as today, and our military was at its lowest alert with the end of the Cold War. I miss those times.

Good joke. Lemme guess, you grew up in the 90s? Born late 80s or early 90s?

I was born before that and I'd take the 90s over now, although I disagree about the social problems part (if it seems those are worse now it's just because it's much easier to hear about them, not that they were particularly terrible in the 90s). Certainly the world seemed like a more optimistic place in the immediate post Cold War era. That it wasn't perfect, that there were still wars going on elsewhere doesn't really change that. Local issues might've been dire in places but the world seemed to be on an overall upward path.

You need to go back to the 70s to find times feeling pretty ropey (at least here, and at least we got some good music from it).

[Madner Kami]

Exactly. But the 1990s was different. The economy was doing well, there were not quite as many social problems as today, and our military was at its lowest alert with the end of the Cold War. I miss those times.

Good joke. Lemme guess, you grew up in the 90s? Born late 80s or early 90s?

I was born before that and I'd take the 90s over now, although I disagree about the social problems part (if it seems those are worse now it's just because it's much easier to hear about them, not that they were particularly terrible in the 90s). Certainly the world seemed like a more optimistic place in the immediate post Cold War era. That it wasn't perfect, that there were still wars going on elsewhere doesn't really change that. Local issues might've been dire in places but the world seemed to be on an overall upward path.

You need to go back to the 70s to find times feeling pretty ropey (at least here, and at least we got some good music from it).

One big powder keg was removed from the fire, a lot more were revealed to be underneath the big one. I agree that the 90s were a more optimistic time in the West and whatever was between the West and the East, but whatever it is you feel right now is just the sobering after a party that everyone partied too hard, forgetting that there's still a tomorrow.

[Karha of Honor]

Exactly. But the 1990s was different. The economy was doing well, there were not quite as many social problems as today, and our military was at its lowest alert with the end of the Cold War. I miss those times.

Good joke. Lemme guess, you grew up in the 90s? Born late 80s or early 90s?

I was born before that and I'd take the 90s over now, although I disagree about the social problems part (if it seems those are worse now it's just because it's much easier to hear about them, not that they were particularly terrible in the 90s). Certainly the world seemed like a more optimistic place in the immediate post Cold War era. That it wasn't perfect, that there were still wars going on elsewhere doesn't really change that. Local issues might've been dire in places but the world seemed to be on an overall upward path.

You need to go back to the 70s to find times feeling pretty ropey (at least here, and at least we got some good music from it).

One big powder keg was removed from the fire, a lot more were revealed to be underneath the big one. I agree that the 90s were a more optimistic time in the West and whatever was between the West and the East, but whatever it is you feel right now is just the sobering after a party that everyone partied too hard, forgetting that there's still a tomorrow.

but whatever it is you feel right now is just the sobering after a party that everyone partied too hard, forgetting that there's still a tomorrow.

What do you mean?

[clearspira]

Yes. STD is far worse.

Come on now. VOY gave 7 seasons of suck. DISCO has one season.

Who on STD from the main cast has as little charisma as ensign Kim?

You cannot deny the quality of the stunts and fights is like 4 times better.

At least on DISCO no actor was phonning it in.

I could go on and on....

Doesn't that tell you something though? That after only one season people hate it more than any season before it?

Who on the STD main cast has as little charisma as Ensign Kim? Going solely by Chuck's reviews, does the cyborg woman even have a character? And personally, I would take a wooden Kim over Hollywood autism Tilly any day. I find that whenever someone makes a character that I am meant to find endearing, they come off annoying as f-.

I find stunts and fight scenes to be of little importance compared to a decent story.

Who was phoning in their performance in any of the first seasons of the other shows either? Even Chakotay was visibly trying in season 1.

How did you quantify that hate?


If it was really hated it would cancleed. TNG and VIY would get cancelled in today's more competitive tv series market.

The Cyborg chick is not a main character.


Both have some serious story problems...

So stunts do matter.

How do I quantify that hate? Just read this very forum and count the negative comments. Just type Star Trek Discovery into Youtube and see the the thousands of hate videos. Just look at the reviews for the DVD. Finding this information is hardly the quest for the holy grail.

There are plenty of under performing series that make it past season 1 in this day and age. May I remind you that Stargate Universe got two seasons?

They why is she on the bridge? What is the point of her? Again, I would take wooden Harry over a character with zero purpose.

Both have serious story problems, but I would take the Temporal Cold War arc over the magical mushrooms with tendrils that will end the multiverse any day.

Stunts and fights do not matter TO ME, therefore saying that they are a saving grace is irrelevant TO ME. City on the Edge of Forever had one stunt at the start with the cordrazine and the rest was story - and that is widely regarded to be the best episode of Star Trek period.

Reading this forum is useless for that. It's like when on a comic book forum with 50-100 regular users some users were convinced that Mitt Romney fears them. Any giant franchise has nitpickers and subfandoms. I don't buy it that a critical number of people hate DISCO but i will try to keep an open mind.

That was a couple of years before today. SGU.

Remeber early O'Brien, it's a starship, some people will have really minor roles. You have to have a bridge crew and not everyone can have a major role.

Just wait, DISCO only has one season.

Why don't you buy that STD is hated? Is it because you like it and thus just don't want to admit that you are the minority? And if you think that STD only has one season, doesn't that mean that you are wrong? Only under performing shows get cancelled.

SGU wasn't long ago enough to disprove the trends of modern TV.

Well, until that day comes, Kim is a better character than cyborg girl.

A minority in what community? On what level of fandom?

They renewed it for season 2.

SGU is almost 10 years ago.

Oh come on, that is a strawman and you know it. You should compare Kim to a major DISCO character.

You are the minority in the Trek fandom for liking STD. I don't know how many times I can say that, and just because you are unwilling to take forums and comments at face value is irrelevant.

I know they renewed it for a second season. But why did YOU say ''Just wait, DISCO only has one season.'' It makes no sense.

You are picking hairs because I have given you a very good example of a crap show not getting cancelled immediately and are now trying to worm your way out of it.

OK, then, i'll compare him to Micheal. I find her to be an annoying, smug, condescending and easily forgiven Designated Hero who committed treason on bullshit evidence and then saved the life of space Hitler just to ease her guilty conscience. Kim on the other hand is a socially awkward and naive geek that is clearly in the closet - that's it. That's his whole list of faults. If I was captain of my own starship, I would pick Kim over Micheal every single time.

[Madner Kami]

but whatever it is you feel right now is just the sobering after a party that everyone partied too hard, forgetting that there's still a tomorrow.

What do you mean?

Remember Francis Fukuyama? That is something that could only happen in the aftermath of a conflict that defined the lives of several generations. People thought that the USSR collapsing meant the end of a world of conflict and that democracy and capitalism are now going to start their undeniable march to all-encompasing peace, prosperity and happyness for everyone. What people especially in the West forgot was, that the collapse of the USSR was tuesday for the world at large. An eventful tuesday no doubt, but still a tuesday and that the triumph of democracy and capitalism could indeed not end in peace and happyness, but economic and socio-economic collapse for quite a lot of people, was on nobody's radar.
I grew up in the aftermath of that tuesday, Eastern Germany to be specific. We woke up on wednesday and realized, that we had no money and no jobs and a future ahead of us, that wasn't all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows and we are still dealing with the fallout of that tuesday and Eastern Germany is one of the regions that got off relatively well. De-population, wide-spread alcoholism and a rather shakey economic foundation are still effecting us today (nicely playing into the re-awakening of the political right) and are going to be a problem for decades to come. It only gets worse the further east from Germany's borders you go, even if things are slowly improving for most of our neighbours.

Similarly, the increasing problems with Islam, argueably religiousity at large (see russian orthodox church meddling in socio-political affairs as an example) and terrorism were things that were written on the horizon and in some regions, were things of daily life, but nobody had them on their radar, so nothing was done about it at large. Then 9/11 ended the 90s decidedly and suddenly the world looked quite different, even to those who had rainbow glasses on their noses.

[clearspira]

Exactly. But the 1990s was different. The economy was doing well, there were not quite as many social problems as today, and our military was at its lowest alert with the end of the Cold War. I miss those times.

Good joke. Lemme guess, you grew up in the 90s? Born late 80s or early 90s?

I was born before that and I'd take the 90s over now, although I disagree about the social problems part (if it seems those are worse now it's just because it's much easier to hear about them, not that they were particularly terrible in the 90s). Certainly the world seemed like a more optimistic place in the immediate post Cold War era. That it wasn't perfect, that there were still wars going on elsewhere doesn't really change that. Local issues might've been dire in places but the world seemed to be on an overall upward path.

You need to go back to the 70s to find times feeling pretty ropey (at least here, and at least we got some good music from it).

One big powder keg was removed from the fire, a lot more were revealed to be underneath the big one. I agree that the 90s were a more optimistic time in the West and whatever was between the West and the East, but whatever it is you feel right now is just the sobering after a party that everyone partied too hard, forgetting that there's still a tomorrow.

I am guessing from your first reply that you were born in the latter half the 1990s to early 2000s and thus you really do not remember that decade at all. Well, i'm sorry, but local fires here and there do not invalidate the fact that the 1990s was a glorious time to be alive. The threat of nuclear war had gone, Eastern terrorism hadn't yet spilled over beyond the East for the most part, Germany was united, technology such as the mobile phone, the PC and the internet were coming of age, equal rights for women and the LGBT community was coming along swiftly, houses were affordable, jobs were plentiful, wages and workers rights were rising, and we had some of the best films, television, music and videogames that the Earth has ever seen.

If you had asked me in 1998 what I thought 2018 would look like, it wouldn't be this.

Edit: i was writing this whilst you were writing your latest comment so I will backtrack on the part about assuming your age. But I'm going to be honest with you: i'm not changing my views on the '90s because nothing you have said changes what I said. It was a period of amazing technological and social innovation that sadly missed your country by at the time. Which is a genuine tragedy, I am not saying that it isn't.

[Yukaphile]

I don't get why some people in Eastern Europe are nostalgic for the USSR to come back, given the way their soldiers behaved when they stormed across those countries 70 years ago. But of course those women and girls were silenced, so we can just continue to ignore their screams and tears and unwanted life those pigs gave them. How like an object a woman was back then... and still is today...

[clearspira]

I don't get why some people in Eastern Europe are nostalgic for the USSR to come back, given the way their soldiers behaved when they stormed across those countries 70 years ago. But of course those women and girls were silenced, so we can just continue to ignore their screams and tears and unwanted life those pigs gave them. How like an object a woman was back then... and still is today...

I was with you until you said that women are still objects today.

[Madner Kami]

I am guessing from your first reply that you were born in the latter half the 1990s to early 2000s and thus you really do not remember that decade at all. Well, i'm sorry, but local fires here and there do not invalidate the fact that the 1990s was a glorious time to be alive. The threat of nuclear war had gone, Eastern terrorism hadn't yet spilled over beyond the East for the most part, Germany was united, technology such as the mobile phone, the PC and the internet were coming of age, equal rights for women and the LGBT community was coming along swiftly, houses were affordable, jobs were plentiful, wages and workers rights were rising, and we had some of the best films, television, music and videogames that the Earth has ever seen.

If you had asked me in 1998 what I thought 2018 would look like, it wouldn't be this.

I was born in 1982. I grew up in the area were houses and infrastructure were ruins (blessed be 40 years of communism), jobs were a rarity (in a town that has been an industrial center since the beginning of the industrial revolution in Germany), wages were less than half of what the same people in the same jobs just 100km west of us earned (despite almost everything costing the same amount, except for housing, because hey, most houses were still heating the only oven in the appartement with coal) and where Neonazis were throwing molotov cocktails at asylum seeker accommodation centres, when they weren't hunting people with baseball bats.

The 90s were at large a good time, because things improved a lot during that period and I am not arguing that the 90s didn't bring a lot of progress in science, technology and society. But the 90s began with a really deep fall for a lot of people and this is still in everybody's bones. And the 90s also are the period were a lot of the foundations for our current problems were laid down. Both sides need to be named to give a complete picture.