What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

[abki]

I hate to jump on bandwagons on general principle, but I'm afraid I'm also in the "DO NOT WANT!" camp. Although I don't agree with all of the criticisms against the film.

My primary problems with it were (note it is all subjective):

1) Resetting character development
It seems as if a lot of main characters had their development reset, or have spontaneous personality changes:

• Rey:
  TFA: Kylo murders her father figure and wounds her best friend
  TLJ: All is forgiven after a few minutes chatting
• Finn:
  TFA: Character arc about overcoming his cowardice, and falling in love with Rey.
  TLJ: Goes back to being a coward, gets new love interest
• Hux:
  TFA: Genuinely intimidating, seems to be the one of the few non force-sensitives that is actually taken seriously by the supreme leader (he seems to be treated on par with Kylo). Implied to be in charge of/having developed their program of raising storm troopers from birth.
  TLJ: Comic relief
• Snoke
  TFA: Seems competent, intimidating
  TLJ: Jokes around

2) Snoke

Simple enough, it personally irritates me that we will not find out where the heck he came from, what he was doing during the previous trilogies, why he doesn't consider himself a Sith, or why the Imperial Remnant decided he should be in charge.


3) "Spark of the Resistance"

This film seems very fixated on the theme that Leia/Rey/Poe and the 20 or so other survivors on the Millennium Falcon are the "ember" that will re-start the flame of the resistance. It is something that the characters repeat over and over again, and they emphasize how vital it is that they escape.

Problem: They're 20 guys in a space U-haul truck! They have no resources! The best they could offer a rebellion is: a) Information about military stockpiles: uncertain how useful this will be, stuff from the original trilogy would be out-of-date, and in TFA the rebellion was more a black ops being funded and run by the New Republic, seems questionable they'd be creating any sizeable caches of equipment b) An experienced commander: admittedly useful, but hardly unique c) Name-power: Questionable, they'd probably be just as effective as martyrs d) Rey: Useful as a trained(ish) force sensitive, but hardly indispensable (just look at the status of the rebellion in Ep IV before Luke shows up)

I guess it just really irks me that they seem to think that they are the only people who would or could run a rebellion. Even if they all kick the bucket, it seems doubtful that no-one will ever think of opposing the tyrannical and oppressive First Order. Makes 'em look like a bunch or raving egomaniacs to keep implying otherwise.

4) Spontaneous love interest

I'm fine with Rose's character. I do not like the fact she spontaneously falls in love with Finn at the end (again, just my opinion that it was rather out of left-field).

5) General logical problems
- The collapsing ship that knows to drop the floor out from under Phasma, but not out from under the 2-tonne walker running about with the protagonists onboard
- I feel that hyper-drive ramming breaks the logic of all previous films
- Characters making stupid decisions in general (i.e. Hux not jumping ahead and destroying the fleet, the fleet not splitting up or at least getting ships to jump before they enter firing range, Holdo not reassuring her crew, etc...)
- The entire Republic fleet was apparently in the capital system, at the same time. That's my best guess as to what happened to them.

[G-Man]

One thing that could have redeemed Rose would be (a) if someone called her out on how much she was working out her personal demons on casino world rather than worrying about the mission, and (b) if after stopping Finn from crashing into the gate-buster, she had said something along the lines of "you wouldn't have destroyed it. The gate is coming down one way or another. If the First Order destroys them, we're the only ones left to keep the Resistance alive. We have to get out and then figure out what we're going to do."

It also would have been cool if Leia had played a bigger role in saving the Resistance in the cave. Showing her using the force to break through the rocks, or to destroy an AT-AT would have made the "Mary Poppins" scene more relevant.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Rose was Finn's love interest?

[Worffan101]

I agree with the (non-toxic) negative opinions of the direction of the franchise, but it's a real shame that so much anticipation and joy has been sucked right out of the franchise.

Yeah, talking about Star Wars' series isn't a fun as it use to be. I remember when the Prequels were coming out and even with their mixed reception most fans I spoke to were still looking forward to the next film. Hell, I remember when The Clone Wars Movie was announced and while the general reaction from fans was "Really?" people were still interested in seeing it and the TV show that was to follow the film.

Today, while I know many fans who are looking forward to Episode 9 it feels like the energy that was present during the Prequel Era has been sucked out which has not been helped by the more toxic parts of the fandom. Right now, the Star Wars fandom is Kirkwall from Dragon Age 2, in that while their Are good people with valid points to like and dislike The Last Jedi the ones you run into the most are just plain awful.

And the one side you've got fans who are of the opinion that if you don't enjoy this movie you're either a sexist bigot or someone wouldn't know true art if it tapped you on your slopping forehead. And on the other side you have people calling anyone who enjoys this film a feminazi who only like this film because it applies to SJW propaganda.

I dislike this film for the poor treatment of characters I have loved for most of my life, a number of moments I see as idiot plot moments, characters being rewarded for selfish behavior and repeating to many of plot points from The Empire Strikes Back. I also feel that the ideas that this film address were done before in Star Wars and better, (discluding Luke turning to the Dark Side as I don't think that's ever been done well). I also feel that Rey is a weak character especially when compared to Mara Jade and Kylo Ren and the rest of the First Order is just a shameless knock off of the Empire without any of the menace they possessed (Hell I think the Separatist in the Prequels were more threatening then the First Order).

But that's just my opinion and I am open to just talking with someone about what they like about Last. But if I go over any issue I am either called a sexist pig or a brainwashed woman who doesn't know any better (the consequences of keeping my gender ambiguous while online )

I know cooler heads will prevail in time so we can all just talk about about Last without starting an argument but I think this toxic atmosphere in the fandom is the main reason why so much of the fun has been sucked out of Star Wars.

As for the future of the series I think MissKittyFantastico said it best.

Where I'm at now is that I think what I feel about Last Jedi is going to depend a lot on what happens with Ep IX. Last Jedi felt like a massive swerve from where it seemed like the trilogy was going after TFA, but we don't know the plan - I have to think even JJ "Let's just wing it" Abrams thought to devise some kind of trilogy sketch when he was handed Star Wars. If Last Jedi turns out to fit into the trilogy in a satisfying way, all good - even the lack of worldbuilding wouldn't matter if it's retro'd in later in a way that isn't jarring. If, though, (and I'd like to be proven wrong, but I do wonder) it turns out that Rian let off his landmines all over conventional expectations without a trilogy plan in mind, and it's left to Ep IX to pick up the pieces and wring some kind of satisfying three-film conclusion out of it... well, dick move Rian. Remains to be seen.

I would argue that the Force Awakens had great good will and enthusiasm for it. The hate for it was nowhere near the Prequels because it actually is a well made film. Most of this negative thought has come with TLJ and the negative politics around it. What Kathleen thought that Force is Female T-shirt was going to achieve is incredible to me. What they thought hiring a man who admits to not being a Star Wars fan to direct Star Wars was going to achieve is incredible to me. If she had just shut up and let Rey's character not her genitals do the work like Lucas did with Leia and Amidala, and if they had gotten an actual fan to write this film as opposed to Rian Johnson, we would be so pumped for Episode 9 right now and that's a fact.

I actually felt that TFA was bland, ripped-off of ANH, and generally messy, with a lack of visual flair or panache and typically jarring Abrams moments where he doesn't understand how space works. And Padme...kind of sucked as a character, but then again everyone in the prequels sucked.

The main problem is the bloating of narratives and the incompetent writer/directors fucking up the whole thing.

[Riedquat]

I actually felt that TFA was bland, ripped-off of ANH, and generally messy, with a lack of visual flair or panache and typically jarring Abrams moments where he doesn't understand how space works.

In the seeing-the-blast bit? Yeah, that threw me because I assumed from that that the Omegamegadeathstar was almost right on top of them, I was expecting a last minute escape before it blasted the planet they were on climax after that. That paled into insignificance with the no concept of space stuff in TLJ though.

TFA was a bit bland and had that problem but I still found it a reasonable film. Mind you I felt the same about Solo. Not a classic but enjoyable enough and it didn't leave any sort of sour taste with me, unlike TLJ. Had a big problem taking a supposedly alien world as alien though since I'm very familiar with some of the scenery

[Worffan101]

I actually felt that TFA was bland, ripped-off of ANH, and generally messy, with a lack of visual flair or panache and typically jarring Abrams moments where he doesn't understand how space works.

In the seeing-the-blast bit? Yeah, that threw me because I assumed from that that the Omegamegadeathstar was almost right on top of them, I was expecting a last minute escape before it blasted the planet they were on climax after that. That paled into insignificance with the no concept of space stuff in TLJ though.

TFA was a bit bland and had that problem but I still found it a reasonable film. Mind you I felt the same about Solo. Not a classic but enjoyable enough and it didn't leave any sort of sour taste with me, unlike TLJ. Had a big problem taking a supposedly alien world as alien though since I'm very familiar with some of the scenery

TLJ's concept of space sucked but it was nowhere near as glaringly in-your-face obvious as in TFA. It seems that Bad Robot is allergic to subtlety and only knows to ram their idiocy down your throat over and over again.

So far I feel thusly about the reboots:
TFA: Hilariously overrated, at best a mediocre movie with 2-3 good new characters in there.
Rogue One: Bland mains, great side characters, mediocre villain, VERY good job showing just how scary the Death Star is, fantastic space fight, the Vader scene I deserved.
TLJ: A half-decent idea executed very badly.
Solo: The best a Han Solo origin movie was ever going to be, which still isn't anything more than watchable and mildly entertaining, but the parts containing Lando and the social justice warrior droid rock, mostly because they play the droid at the right balance of comedy and serious and Glover's Lando, once he finds his patter, is the best part of the whole damn movie by far.

[Riedquat]

TLJ's concept of space sucked but it was nowhere near as glaringly in-your-face obvious as in TFA. It seems that Bad Robot is allergic to subtlety and only knows to ram their idiocy down your throat over and over again.

So far I feel thusly about the reboots:
TFA: Hilariously overrated, at best a mediocre movie with 2-3 good new characters in there.
Rogue One: Bland mains, great side characters, mediocre villain, VERY good job showing just how scary the Death Star is, fantastic space fight, the Vader scene I deserved.
TLJ: A half-decent idea executed very badly.
Solo: The best a Han Solo origin movie was ever going to be, which still isn't anything more than watchable and mildly entertaining, but the parts containing Lando and the social justice warrior droid rock, mostly because they play the droid at the right balance of comedy and serious and Glover's Lando, once he finds his patter, is the best part of the whole damn movie by far.

I'd largely go along with that. I really did like Glover's Lando.

[clearspira]

I actually felt that TFA was bland, ripped-off of ANH, and generally messy, with a lack of visual flair or panache and typically jarring Abrams moments where he doesn't understand how space works.

In the seeing-the-blast bit? Yeah, that threw me because I assumed from that that the Omegamegadeathstar was almost right on top of them, I was expecting a last minute escape before it blasted the planet they were on climax after that. That paled into insignificance with the no concept of space stuff in TLJ though.

TFA was a bit bland and had that problem but I still found it a reasonable film. Mind you I felt the same about Solo. Not a classic but enjoyable enough and it didn't leave any sort of sour taste with me, unlike TLJ. Had a big problem taking a supposedly alien world as alien though since I'm very familiar with some of the scenery

TLJ's concept of space sucked but it was nowhere near as glaringly in-your-face obvious as in TFA. It seems that Bad Robot is allergic to subtlety and only knows to ram their idiocy down your throat over and over again.

So far I feel thusly about the reboots:
TFA: Hilariously overrated, at best a mediocre movie with 2-3 good new characters in there.
Rogue One: Bland mains, great side characters, mediocre villain, VERY good job showing just how scary the Death Star is, fantastic space fight, the Vader scene I deserved.
TLJ: A half-decent idea executed very badly.
Solo: The best a Han Solo origin movie was ever going to be, which still isn't anything more than watchable and mildly entertaining, but the parts containing Lando and the social justice warrior droid rock, mostly because they play the droid at the right balance of comedy and serious and Glover's Lando, once he finds his patter, is the best part of the whole damn movie by far.

Ooh... cannot agree with that take on Lando and SJW Droid. First off, no, the Lando from Episodes 5 and 6 was not pansexual, never was, gave no inkling of being so, and is just one more character assassination to add to the pile.
And SJW Droid? Give me back Jar Jar. And no, not an exaggeration. He did not annoy me as much as she did. And was her death scene meant to be funny or tragic? Because there were some hard laughs in my cinema and indeed coming out of my mouth too at the idea that somehow the death of someone this annoying was something to shed tears over.

[Riedquat]

Ooh... cannot agree with that take on Lando and SJW Droid. First off, no, the Lando from Episodes 5 and 6 was not pansexual, never was, gave no inkling of being so, and is just one more character assassination to add to the pile.

Gave no inkling of it but I didn't feel what we saw of it felt artificial and forced for his character either, so I don't have any issue with that.

[Worffan101]

I actually felt that TFA was bland, ripped-off of ANH, and generally messy, with a lack of visual flair or panache and typically jarring Abrams moments where he doesn't understand how space works.

In the seeing-the-blast bit? Yeah, that threw me because I assumed from that that the Omegamegadeathstar was almost right on top of them, I was expecting a last minute escape before it blasted the planet they were on climax after that. That paled into insignificance with the no concept of space stuff in TLJ though.

TFA was a bit bland and had that problem but I still found it a reasonable film. Mind you I felt the same about Solo. Not a classic but enjoyable enough and it didn't leave any sort of sour taste with me, unlike TLJ. Had a big problem taking a supposedly alien world as alien though since I'm very familiar with some of the scenery

TLJ's concept of space sucked but it was nowhere near as glaringly in-your-face obvious as in TFA. It seems that Bad Robot is allergic to subtlety and only knows to ram their idiocy down your throat over and over again.

So far I feel thusly about the reboots:
TFA: Hilariously overrated, at best a mediocre movie with 2-3 good new characters in there.
Rogue One: Bland mains, great side characters, mediocre villain, VERY good job showing just how scary the Death Star is, fantastic space fight, the Vader scene I deserved.
TLJ: A half-decent idea executed very badly.
Solo: The best a Han Solo origin movie was ever going to be, which still isn't anything more than watchable and mildly entertaining, but the parts containing Lando and the social justice warrior droid rock, mostly because they play the droid at the right balance of comedy and serious and Glover's Lando, once he finds his patter, is the best part of the whole damn movie by far.

Ooh... cannot agree with that take on Lando and SJW Droid. First off, no, the Lando from Episodes 5 and 6 was not pansexual, never was, gave no inkling of being so, and is just one more character assassination to add to the pile.
And SJW Droid? Give me back Jar Jar. And no, not an exaggeration. He did not annoy me as much as she did. And was her death scene meant to be funny or tragic? Because there were some hard laughs in my cinema and indeed coming out of my mouth too at the idea that somehow the death of someone this annoying was something to shed tears over.

Lando from 5 and 6 could've been pan, ace, whatever. They never really gave an indication of his sexuality. I don't consider it character assassination at all, in fact I think that Glover gives about the only performance that could've matched the original.

The SJW droid was fucking hilarious, especially the part where she's all about LEADING THE REVOLUTION. Also it was nice to see someone trying to do big thinky stuff with Star Wars and not having it come out as unwatchable hackwork like TLJ.