Areas where you'd respectfully disagree with Chuck

[AllanO]

Does that work for ya? Mind•you•on•public•inscriptions•the•Romans•usually•wrote•like•this. It's normally only short inscriptions, like names, that are truely written as one word.

Umm I've seen photocopies of Greek manuscripts that have no spaces, it made them a bit more challenging to read, but apparently our ancient predecessors had no problem with it. At various times Latin was written like that too, it is apparently called Scriptio Continua ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua ) .

You should really not have removed the spaces from something I wrote, I can easily parse that (it surprised me how easy), now if you'd wanted to challenge me you would have put something I had never seen up without spaces that might be hard to parse (also all letters in the same case for full effect).

Also in speech there are certainly not gaps between words to indicate word endings yet we get along (in spoken English at any rate).

Spaces actually aren't non-existent, they are just handled differently between scripts and phonetics. Let's take "scripts and phonetics" for instance; it's correct that we don't stop after "scripts" in order to properly pronounce "and," we say, "script sand phonetics." English makes no formal distinction of it, but romantic languages do employ formal rules of the pronunciation that make it seem less colloquial of a practice and serve to elicit distinction when it's actively avoided in specific cases.

Anyways, what you said in the first paragraph is consistent with pretty much everything I said, though you're right that bio is a discrete word in itself. Biopic though is indeed one word and not subject to the apparent rule of spaces being frivolous.

On your first point, since English is not a romance language (although it borrows a lot from French to be sure) I am not seeing the relevance. I am saying the necessary distinctions between "biopic" and "bio pic" are going to be razor thin at best (in English) and it may indeed make sense to pronounce them both the same, whereas you seem to be saying there is some vast difference between "bio pic" and "biopic" that would mandate a different pronunciation. I am not seeing it...

On your second point you seemed to imply ("so I'm not sure why you'd change it to a long o just because biology's shorthand does") bio was only short for biology whereas bio is also a common shorthand for biography which seemed relevant in this context. Sorry, I misunderstood. Also apparently I forgot or did not read the second part of what I quoted as I was repeated it, which was silly of me, sorry.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

On your first point, since English is not a romance language (although it borrows a lot from French to be sure) I am not seeing the relevance. I am saying the necessary distinctions between "biopic" and "bio pic" are going to be razor thin at best (in English) and it may indeed make sense to pronounce them both the same, whereas you seem to be saying there is some vast difference between "bio pic" and "biopic" that would mandate a different pronunciation. I am not seeing it...

It doesn't have to be the same root heritage of language. It's something that happens in the phonetics of both languages. What you're describing as an absence of phonetic construct for spaces is actually a distinction between phonetics and script given that there is a structured pattern for separation between spoken words. Just because romantics are the only ones that apparently acknowledge it doesn't mean that it simply doesn't exist in germanic.

I contend that the only reason it turns into a long "o" is because it's a single word that exists with discrete context no matter what word it sits next to (and I'm not saying that spaces serve as some significant influence on vowel pronunciation). We go out of our way to change it so that it can exist on its own and make it phonetically practical, but that doesn't lend itself to go back and change it when there's no practical reason to.

On your second point you seemed to imply ("so I'm not sure why you'd change it to a long o just because biology's shorthand does") bio was only short for biology whereas bio is also a common shorthand for biography which seemed relevant in this context. Sorry, I misunderstood. Also apparently I forgot or did not read the second part of what I quoted as I was repeated it, which was silly of me, sorry.

This seems again to be a concise iteration of what you said before (as the second part). So cheers I guess.

[bronnt]

I thought the personification of 1700's battlefield was just a means of communicating it to Janeway's senses in a conceptually practical way, both physical and socially I suppose (edit: which is practically what our brains do in the form of dreams when we sleep, now that I think about it).

I don't believe I could find contention between someone's 2-rating vs a 1-rating, though Chuck does supply objective critical analysis. So, interesting disagreement.

Mostly I just wanted another chance to rail against that episode, since it was on the other day and I can never make it through the scene where Q hits on Janeway. I would be perfectly content with giving Threshold a 1 and Q and the Grey dropping into that 0 section. It's actively harmful to the franchise in the same way that Dear Doctor is.

The problem is that it's treating metaphors as reality, which fails as a coherent thought. When you use a metaphor to explain something, it comes from knowing how things actually work and then trying to simplify them for someone else's benefit. I could use a metaphor to explain the nature of internet networks, or the failure of the French Empire's Continental System, because I actually know how those work and can try to smooth out the ways a metaphor might be imperfect.

Kenneth Biller didn't think about how the Q war works even slightly and wasn't trying to explain it to anyone, so he just treated the metaphor as exactly accurate and played it out as if it was. It was childlike in its thoughtlessness.

For example, the female Q in that episode was implied to have lost her powers in the Q war, even though she somehow managed to make her way to Voyager. That makes anyone who's watched previous Q episodes remember that the few times we've seen a Q without powers, it's been the continuum stripping them away from each other. So, is this how the war is going? Q's are depowering each other left and right? No, they're seemingly using metaphorical muskets, not creating proxy beings to use them, and standing at point blank range with their muskets.

When Tom and Voyager show up, why isn't Tom wished away into the cornfield? Why aren't all of them wished away into the cornfield? Because the metaphor became reality.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I thought the personification of 1700's battlefield was just a means of communicating it to Janeway's senses in a conceptually practical way, both physical and socially I suppose (edit: which is practically what our brains do in the form of dreams when we sleep, now that I think about it).

I don't believe I could find contention between someone's 2-rating vs a 1-rating, though Chuck does supply objective critical analysis. So, interesting disagreement.

Mostly I just wanted another chance to rail against that episode, since it was on the other day and I can never make it through the scene where Q hits on Janeway. I would be perfectly content with giving Threshold a 1 and Q and the Grey dropping into that 0 section. It's actively harmful to the franchise in the same way that Dear Doctor is.

The problem is that it's treating metaphors as reality, which fails as a coherent thought. When you use a metaphor to explain something, it comes from knowing how things actually work and then trying to simplify them for someone else's benefit. I could use a metaphor to explain the nature of internet networks, or the failure of the French Empire's Continental System, because I actually know how those work and can try to smooth out the ways a metaphor might be imperfect.

Kenneth Biller didn't think about how the Q war works even slightly and wasn't trying to explain it to anyone, so he just treated the metaphor as exactly accurate and played it out as if it was. It was childlike in its thoughtlessness.

For example, the female Q in that episode was implied to have lost her powers in the Q war, even though she somehow managed to make her way to Voyager. That makes anyone who's watched previous Q episodes remember that the few times we've seen a Q without powers, it's been the continuum stripping them away from each other. So, is this how the war is going? Q's are depowering each other left and right? No, they're seemingly using metaphorical muskets, not creating proxy beings to use them, and standing at point blank range with their muskets.

When Tom and Voyager show up, why isn't Tom wished away into the cornfield? Why aren't all of them wished away into the cornfield? Because the metaphor became reality.

It's definitely campy and wouldn't be my first consideration. The Q though are white noise of a being. Reading the memory alpha, the war entailed cosmic disruptions across the Milky Way. At this scale we're taking a considerable amount of area for the goings on of say, a community or city. Given Q's ability to manipulate time, the drama could be conveyed to probably any 3-dimensional consideration, even with respect to Janeway's past encounters with the Q giving influence to the contemporary scenario played out in a 3+ dimensional construct.

[Artabax]

The problem is that it's treating metaphors as reality, which fails as a coherent thought. When you use a metaphor to explain something, it comes from knowing how things actually work and then trying to simplify them for someone else's benefit. I could use a metaphor to explain the nature of internet networks, or the failure of the French Empire's Continental System, because I actually know how those work and can try to smooth out the ways a metaphor might be imperfect.

Puny hyoomonn brain cannot understand Q War, so it is explained in terms of USA Civil War OK.

But then Tuvok replicates ordinary rifles and shoots all the Q. WTF??? It ain't a metaphor at all, Q really are using rifles??? If Tuvok had wandered around the battlefield picking up Q-guns which LOOK like rifles from the dead Qs, that would have made sense. But no, it has to be regular guns.

Then again, this is a common Trek trope, Regular guns kill aliens who are immune to phasers which is why Fed insists on useless phasers and useless ships that are poisoned with cheese.

[FaxModem1]

The problem is that it's treating metaphors as reality, which fails as a coherent thought. When you use a metaphor to explain something, it comes from knowing how things actually work and then trying to simplify them for someone else's benefit. I could use a metaphor to explain the nature of internet networks, or the failure of the French Empire's Continental System, because I actually know how those work and can try to smooth out the ways a metaphor might be imperfect.

Puny hyoomonn brain cannot understand Q War, so it is explained in terms of USA Civil War OK.

But then Tuvok replicates ordinary rifles and shoots all the Q. WTF??? It ain't a metaphor at all, Q really are using rifles??? If Tuvok had wandered around the battlefield picking up Q-guns which LOOK like rifles from the dead Qs, that would have made sense. But no, it has to be regular guns.

Then again, this is a common Trek trope, Regular guns kill aliens who are immune to phasers which is why Fed insists on useless phasers and useless ships that are poisoned with cheese.

No, Female Q says that they're using Q weaponry. So the crew really did pick up the metaphorical weapons from dead Q and started pointing them at various Confederate Qs' heads.

Still a stupid episode though.

[bronnt]

The problem is that it's treating metaphors as reality, which fails as a coherent thought. When you use a metaphor to explain something, it comes from knowing how things actually work and then trying to simplify them for someone else's benefit. I could use a metaphor to explain the nature of internet networks, or the failure of the French Empire's Continental System, because I actually know how those work and can try to smooth out the ways a metaphor might be imperfect.

Puny hyoomonn brain cannot understand Q War, so it is explained in terms of USA Civil War OK.

But then Tuvok replicates ordinary rifles and shoots all the Q. WTF??? It ain't a metaphor at all, Q really are using rifles??? If Tuvok had wandered around the battlefield picking up Q-guns which LOOK like rifles from the dead Qs, that would have made sense. But no, it has to be regular guns.

Then again, this is a common Trek trope, Regular guns kill aliens who are immune to phasers which is why Fed insists on useless phasers and useless ships that are poisoned with cheese.

The guns themselves are the tiniest smidgeon of the logical vacuum. Did entering the Q Continuum give the crew of Voyager Q-powers? If so, why didn't they just magic their ship home before leaving? If not, why aren't the actual Q people turning them into newts and puppies and gadflies? Why aren't they freezing them like Tasha Yar in the pilot, or just outright banishing them like Quinn did all the males when Voyager freed him from that comet?

Think about how insane the powers are that Q has demonstrated over the years, when taken in sum. On multiple occasions, Q has created people. Real people as far as we know, not just automatons (see Encounter at Farpoint, Qpid). And he GAVE Q-powers to Riker. Why aren't Qs just mass producing armies of more Q beings at exponential rates to destroy each other? Why is literally zero thought being given to how the Q Civil War even works?

[Yukaphile]

Even "Death Wish" was smarter in its execution of an omnipotent god tug-of-war. Quinn takes them back to the Big Bang, then shrinks them to subatomic particles, then sticks them to a Christmas tree somewhere across time. THAT kind of thought should have been put into a "battle of gods."

[Madner Kami]

Could be all a ploy of Q in order to get into Janeways panties?

[Wargriffin]

Could be all a ploy of Q in order to get into Janeways panties?

Look No offense to Kate Mulgrew...

but of all the females Q could spend chasing... 'Which brings up why he'd bother but'

He picks Janeway... who isn't someone I'd call a "Helen of Troy" so beautiful to start a war over