What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

[Wargriffin]

Cause the Disney Era does not believe in internal world logic.

Thats Why the First order can take over the Galaxy and lose its IMPLIED MAIN fleet in the same movie

Why one attack on the Republic basically takes them out of the game. even though it reality it be like Nuking DC and then expecting NO response from the USA even though you didn't take out any military complexes
Yes they say the Republic Defense Fleet would be wiped out

but you're telling me that the Republic only has a fleet for its Capital? Thats moves every 8 or so years? in a body that has hundreds of worlds most likely having their own independent militaries

Yes I read the New EU, It paints a very specific picture that the First Order knows it can't win a stand up fight with the New Republic. Hell thats the whole point of starkiller base to even the odds since they can fire system wide death from the Frontier into the core worlds.

Return of the Jedi made this make more sense by explaining in two scenes that the majority of the Rebels were out making it look like they were amassing somewhere else with the Empire sending fleets after them and Palpy saying he had the elite of the elite hiding behind the moon knowing the Rebels will send their best to try and kill him.

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

In response to the OP? I think it's a horrific abomination of storytelling twisted by a man with no actual skill or creativity as a director, a studio that has no concern for its fanbase or the legacy they are entrusted with, and a company that didn't fully understand the responsibility they were taking on when they bought the franchise. The Sequel Trilogy has killed Star Wars, period. It is nothing more than a nihilistic exercise in merch selling and it can't even do that right with how they demonize their fanbase for their own failings.

This will be the worst thing Star Wars until Hollywood has the gall to try rebooting the original trilogy in another generation. Then? It will still be one of the worst films ever made but it will attract slightly more intelligent defenders.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Since this thread, I've been questioning whether we actually got more story in the way of Palpatine than Snoke by the time of each respective demise. That is, besides one preceding movie that does a bit of world building. We only see a glimpse of Palpatine in Empire Strikes Back, and we get a good taste of him in Return of the Jedi. So I'm not sure if I should actually feel that Palpatine had a greater story impact than Snoke. They both assume a level of control and influence over the active antagonist. Does it just leave more to the imagination when you see someone pull the strings behind Vader than someone like Kylo Ren? Like I feel like Snoke's death was anticlimactic.

It might have a bit to do with Palpatine's death actually concluding a saga, while Snoke's is more in the middle of the saga.

[Winter]

Since this thread, I've been questioning whether we actually got more story in the way of Palpatine than Snoke by the time of each respective demise. That is, besides one preceding movie that does a bit of world building. We only see a glimpse of Palpatine in Empire Strikes Back, and we get a good taste of him in Return of the Jedi. So I'm not sure if I should actually feel that Palpatine had a greater story impact than Snoke. They both assume a level of control and influence over the active antagonist. Does it just leave more to the imagination when you see someone pull the strings behind Vader than someone like Kylo Ren? Like I feel like Snoke's death was anticlimactic.

It might have a bit to do with Palpatine's death actually concluding a saga, while Snoke's is more in the middle of the saga.

The issue with Palpatine vs. Snoke is that it's made clear that Vader is the one who caused his own downfall and while Palpatine had a hand in that downfall in the end, it was all Vader and his mater was the final obstacle on his path to redemption.

With Snoke, it's made as clear as possible that He is the one who corrupted Ben Solo to the dark side. Everyone, from his parents to Luke and Snoke himself all go on and ON about how Ben was manipulated by Snoke into becoming a Sith. I think the reason for this is because it's a way to give Ren an out so if the filmmakers want to redeem him he can just go back to the light side despite all he's done because it wasn't really his fault.

With Vader and Mara, both did horrible things and Were on the dark side by their own choice. Sure Mara was brainwashed as a child and felt no real hatred to those she killed but in the end it was still her choice to do all those horrible things. Same thing with Vader, he wasn't tricked into becoming a Sith he did it because he wanted to save his wife and knew that crossing that line would come at a cost, he just didn't know what that cost truly was.

But with Ren, despite all the horrible things he's done the films keep trying to give him a scapegoat so he doesn't have to take all the blame which frankly feels like a cheat. It's the same issue I have with Rey, Finn, Poe or Rose not having to deal with the fallout of any of their failures in Last. The filmmakers claim this is about forcing the characters to grow by making them fail but in the end none of them have to own up to their own mistakes and are instead rewarded for ignoring their mistakes.

Same thing here Ren doesn't have to deal with the fallout of him turning bad since it wasn't really his fault with everyone going on how he can return to the light even though it has been 2 movies and he has put exactly Zero effort into trying to redeem himself. At least that how it feels to me.

But the key difference between Palpatine and Snoke is that with the former, there was no mystery and he was nothing more then Vader's boss who the heroes had to kill to truly win the day and who Vader had to kill to fully redeem himself. Snoke was built up, both in and out of universe, as the true big bad of the films. Who he is and how he turned Ben Solo to the Dark Side are points that the Awakens and Last kept bringing up only for him to no matter, so far, and for the films to try and back peddle and make Ren the Real Big Bad.

[Madner Kami]

You can bet your arse that Snoke somehow survived TLJ and comes back for the next installment.

[Worffan101]

Honestly I hope Snoke is permadead. He was a garbage villain anyway, forget him and kill off Bitchface McFuckboy, and leave it at that.

[Wargriffin]

You can bet your arse that Snoke somehow survived TLJ and comes back for the next installment.

But How?





Oh... That be one Meta Disney joke

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

But the key difference between Palpatine and Snoke is that with the former, there was no mystery and he was nothing more then Vader's boss who the heroes had to kill to truly win the day and who Vader had to kill to fully redeem himself. Snoke was built up, both in and out of universe, as the true big bad of the films. Who he is and how he turned Ben Solo to the Dark Side are points that the Awakens and Last kept bringing up only for him to no matter, so far, and for the films to try and back peddle and make Ren the Real Big Bad.

Ahhh... So, expectations subverted.

I just thought it was weird that with all that kindling with Rey, he goes back into the ATAT and starts screaming at the console trying to kill Luke.

[Madner Kami]

You can bet your arse that Snoke somehow survived TLJ and comes back for the next installment.

But How?





Oh... That be one Meta Disney joke

Oh I dunno, but they will. TLJ subverted too many expectations, including DIsney's profit expectations. Snoke was setup to be something and have a look at what TLJ left out of all the setups that TFA created. There's literally nothing left. Rey is a Nobody. Han, Luke and Leia are gone. The Rebellion is weaker than it was in ANH. The First Order already conquered the Galaxy (somehow). Snoke is dead. The Knights of Ren are nowhere to be seen. And so on and on and on. All that is left is some little drama lama between Rey and Kylo and that just isn't enough to fill a Star Wars movie. I'm certain Disney would not mind dragging that little bit out ad infinitum, say in Star Wars Reylo, the new Star Wars Soap Opera daily series, but for a movie? Nope. They will bring back plot-threats from TFA. They don't have the time left within the triolgy to set everything up anew and I have sincere doubts that they are going to bank on the success of a de facto stand-alone movie and Snoke is poorly defined enough, to get him back. Somehow.

[Riedquat]

Ahhh... So, expectations subverted.

Which is the sort of thing that gets trotted out as a justification in its own right. It's easy to subvert expectations, rather harder to do it well. It's no better than "it was trying to be different" - that's fine if they've got a good idea for being different with, just doing it for the sake of it and claiming that alone is sufficient is not. Not every idea will work out but some writers give the impression that their method of working out what will is to throw them all at the wall and see what sticks rather than put any effort in to it.