Will The Disney Star War Sequel Trilogy Stand the Test of Time

[Madner Kami]

He wasn't involved much beyond that, and they obviously added a lot of their own stuff, but he's a tad more responsible than people realise I think.

If George Lucas should be famous for one thing, then it's the fact this his conceptual ideas generally drastically differ from his final products. Have a look at Linkara's review of "The Star Wars", a comic that runs with George Lucas' original idea. You can recognize all the ideas of the final product, but boy are you in for a surprise, if you never had contact with the rough draft of the original...

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I remember that review.

Chuck's retrospective gives a lot of insight to this topic.

This guy also has retrospectives on the original trilogy. Most everything he says was covered by Chuck (I'm pretty sure it dates Chuck's videos), but it was fun to watch. Actually I'm not sure if he goes on about the original concepts, just the production efforts so to speak.

[Winter]

Minor correction to something I said earlier it was Legacy of the Force that reminds me of the Disney Era not Fate of the Jedi. My Bad.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well I don't know any of the EU so the distinction was arbitrary.

[Winter]

Yeah, but still I felt the need to correct that error also, Thrawn Trilogy and X-Wing Series, go check them out.

[Yukaphile]

Ah, the X-Wing series. I have a soft spot for Corran Horn admittedly. And Nejaa Halcyon in the prequel era.

[Jonathan101]

He wasn't involved much beyond that, and they obviously added a lot of their own stuff, but he's a tad more responsible than people realise I think.

If George Lucas should be famous for one thing, then it's the fact this his conceptual ideas generally drastically differ from his final products. Have a look at Linkara's review of "The Star Wars", a comic that runs with George Lucas' original idea. You can recognize all the ideas of the final product, but boy are you in for a surprise, if you never had contact with the rough draft of the original...

I'm aware.

The issue is that, in this case, the conceptual ideas didn't differ enough. The key failings of TFA are a) that it cribs too much from the OT, b) that the characters need to be better written, and c) that the basic plot premise- the one laid out by Lucas of Lukes' New Jedi Order lying in ashes- is a fundamentally flawed one.

Minor correction to something I said earlier it was Legacy of the Force that reminds me of the Disney Era not Fate of the Jedi. My Bad.

Crap. I should have caught that myself, but instead I made the same mistake -_-

[Winter]

The issue is that, in this case, the conceptual ideas didn't differ enough. The key failings of TFA are a) that it cribs too much from the OT, b) that the characters need to be better written, and c) that the basic plot premise- the one laid out by Lucas of Lukes' New Jedi Order lying in ashes- is a fundamentally flawed one.

I think you're giving Lucas to much credit for the flaws of TDST, yes it was His idea but again, by Luca' own admission it was a VERY First Rough Draft and as Chuck has often said, the first thing you make is almost always going to be crap. Despite my annoyance with the direction the series has gone, AND my issues with LotF and later just Legacy I'm not against the idea of Luke's Jedi order going to Hell.

The issue here is that the films don't really explore this and instead just opt to redo Hope all over again. The Jedi failed to save the galaxy and have entered into myth to the point most don't believe in them. We've seen this already and to make matters worse the characters are pretty much just going through the motions of the plot regardless of actual character motivation.

And you know what the most annoying part of this all is, from everything I could find Lucas film rushed this film through development to get it out on time for Christmas without actually thinking any of the story through. Had they been given just a little bit of time to work this all out they could have come up with something really special and unique.

As I said, many times, one of the reasons I don't think the Disney Era, as it is now, will not stand the test of time is that the new characters of this series are REALLY lacking any real personal motivation and goals.

Case in point let's look at Rey, it's very likely that her lack of a past and overly strong powers in the Force was in Lucas' draft and it being just the first draft and him not really going through the creative process like he did with the OT or even the Prequels. So let's go over the basics here, we have Three major issues, Rey, original name Kira which I'm going to stick with because it sounds cooler, is a character without a past. She is strangely strong in the Force and has some sort of connection to Luke and the Jedi Killer.

We also have Luke's Jedi Order destroyed by said Jedi killer who is a former student of his, possible Ben Solo. And Kira is the one chosen to find Luke and bring him back so what to do with this story.

For me, and this could be hindsight talking, but I feel the solution is simply, when Kira is captured by the Jedi killer and she demands to see his face he complies with her request. After doing so Kira says the following line in a rather somber tone.

"Hello Ben."

The conversation between them then reviles the following, Kira isn't just some scavenger from Not Tatooine but is actually one of the Padawans from Luke's school and was a friend of Ben Solo but after Ben turned to the Dark Side she ran away, cut herself off from the Force and hid on Not Tatooine.

This simple little change then fixes all, or at least most, of the problems, it explains why Kira/Rey is so strong in the Force, her connection to Luke & Ren, why Ren was so obsessed with her and why she is willing to give him a chance to redeem himself later. And the writers still get there Rey's/Kira's parents aren't important as she's not a Skywalker, a Kanobi or a Solo she's just Rey/Kira.

This also adds layers to her relationship with Finn, (originally named Sam just FYI) as she understand why he wants to run as she did the same thing he did years ago and it still fits with her other character trait from Awakens, her desire to not be alone.

And it also gives her a more personal motive in this story as her seeking Luke and attempting to get him back in the fight could be seen as her trying to redeem herself for her cowardness, at least that's her point of view on the matter.

To sum up the Prequels, the Original Trilogy and the Thrawn Trilogy it would go something like this. TPT is a Tragedy (Anakin), TOT is the Heroes Journey (Luke) and TTT is a tale of Redemption (Mara). And while this may not be TTT you could do the same with Kira/Rey, her past is a Tragedy, her journey is to become a hero and her goal is personal redemption.

This makes the story complex and gives the main character a goal that makes her relatable instead of her just being someone who was Chosen by the Force just to fight Ren because, Destiny.

[Jonathan101]

^ Okay, that's definitely a better way to go with Rey / Kira at least, I'll grant that.

[Winter]

Another thing that bugs me with TDST and why I don't think it will stand the test of time is how much everyone seems yells or growls their lines. Now one argument I read in defense of this is that it helps make the viewer more invested in the characters as they appear more passionate and I can see why someone would think that but for me, this feels rather lazy.

Case in point, Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet, or really any movie he has made, will almost always have someone SCREAM THEIR LINES FOR THE REST OF THE GALAXY TO HEAR or whisper them so quietly that the deft will be asking them to speak up.

Now you could argue that this is done with C'baoth from The Thrawn Trilogy as he too will either scream or almost whisper all his lines but here's the thing, he's the exception to the norm as everyone else in the book talks like a normal person. And on a related note, and this is again something I noticed is a reoccurring trope in Luhrmann's work in TLJ everyone in that film tends to speak very dramatically. Like Really dramatically, like William Shatner is telling them to tone it down.

I mean the Prequels are infamous for their dialogue and is often criticized for being to on the nose and yet no seems to point out that in TLJ just about everyone is either making some dramatic speech about failure, hope, evil, war profiteering and the nature of good and evil.

I mean SW has always had a bit of over dramatic dialogue in it but for the most part, as how Lucas set it up back in ANH, most of the dialogue in the series is designed to be more casual with the more dramatic lines being toned down.

One of my favorite moments in TTT is a conversation Luke and Mara have about Leia's kids and Luke worrying about how he will train them. Rather then give Luke some big motivational speech she instead her usual bluntly honest self but not in a rude way.

What's great about this moment is that it helps show how far both have come in their relationship with Luke being careful while talking around Mara and Mara wanting to killing Luke just for living and now Luke is revealing his greatest fear and Mara is being a friend and telling him what he needs to hear. And neither of them needed to scream or make some great speech about the way of the Jedi vs. the way of the Sith they just needed to talk like people.

While not done as well as TOT or TTT I can think of a number of moments in TPT where Lucas does try to have the characters talk in a more conversational way and same goes for TFA. But TLJ much like Legacy of the Force characters spend to much time screaming or whispering all while trying to make things as dramatic as possible.

And going back to Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet as Kyle over on Bros Held High said in his review of the movie, the dust is already starting to show on that film, it was stylized and dramatic and at the time it was a huge hit on release. Then came the point where Shakespeare fans were going up against the critics about how bad the film was and now 22 years later, it's mostly remembered for staring Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Danes and nothing else. On a personal level I don't think any of Luhrmann's movies have really held up all that well as they seem to rely mostly on style instead of substance but that's just me.