What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yes, there is the working relationship between the two. Still I don't look into what it suggests about prior worldbuilding, but what we do see is two people running the galaxy in tandem in the original trilogy. And yeah also that Snoke and Kylo are introduced in the same movie, so just the introduction of Snoke doesn't have as much potential energy as an impact.

It is interesting that you guys bring up the subservience of Kylo. I actually thought that went well with Snoke's gargantuous hologram as it very much inflated my whole perception of him.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Except that neither side was able to think out of that very narrow box they insisted on looking through, plus for some reason the laws of physics decided to take a day off (you don't need fuel in space- there is no friction in space).

Actually there is friction in space. It's tiny and almost incomprehensibly negligable, but it is there, as you can find about 1 atom of matter per squarecentimeter in space. Considerably more though if you begin getting closer into a solar system or even around planets (that is actually something that needs to be accounted for by stuff like the ISS). Also, there's, for lack of a better word, drag by gravitational forces. But those also can be mostly ignored unless you are closer to a celestial object.

But, to make a less facitious comment, you do need fuel (in terms of propellant) in space to propel an object, unless your technology allows you to annihilate and create space around your ship, warp space or utilizes artificial gravity to propel you by gravitational pull and even then you still need fuel to create the energy for those drives.

Okay, I should have been more exact- you don't need fuel in space in the way the movie portrays it (I was just rushing out the door when I wrote that, in my defence).

I was just watching the movie last night and kinda got off put with fuel being a constraint in the plot. They brought it up several times by different people at different times I believe, and I just kinda wondered how it ended up getting crafted into a Star Wars movie by this point.

From what I remember they only had enough reserves of either power or fuel for one more jump to lightspeed, which would have been a futile attempt 'cause the Star Destroyers were tracking them for some reason. I can't really remember the scene where they figure out how that's happening and proceed to undo that.

[Jonathan101]

Except that neither side was able to think out of that very narrow box they insisted on looking through, plus for some reason the laws of physics decided to take a day off (you don't need fuel in space- there is no friction in space).

Actually there is friction in space. It's tiny and almost incomprehensibly negligable, but it is there, as you can find about 1 atom of matter per squarecentimeter in space. Considerably more though if you begin getting closer into a solar system or even around planets (that is actually something that needs to be accounted for by stuff like the ISS). Also, there's, for lack of a better word, drag by gravitational forces. But those also can be mostly ignored unless you are closer to a celestial object.

But, to make a less facitious comment, you do need fuel (in terms of propellant) in space to propel an object, unless your technology allows you to annihilate and create space around your ship, warp space or utilizes artificial gravity to propel you by gravitational pull and even then you still need fuel to create the energy for those drives.

Okay, I should have been more exact- you don't need fuel in space in the way the movie portrays it (I was just rushing out the door when I wrote that, in my defence).

I was just watching the movie last night and kinda got off put with fuel being a constraint in the plot. They brought it up several times by different people at different times I believe, and I just kinda wondered how it ended up getting crafted into a Star Wars movie by this point.

From what I remember they only had enough reserves of either power or fuel for one more jump to lightspeed, which would have been a futile attempt 'cause the Star Destroyers were tracking them for some reason. I can't really remember the scene where they figure out how that's happening and proceed to undo that.

It's amazing how a Resistance group that is fighting an evil empire and would logically need to be able to abandon its bases at a moments notice only has fuel for one extra hyperspace jump (for EVERY SHIP IN IT'S FLEET I SUPPOSE). Not to mention all of those SPACE ships apparently only had enough power to be IN SPACE for a few days, or a couple of weeks at most, before running out of power.

Even then though, you'd think "okay, split up" would have been suggested as an option, since it's established that the First Order only has tracking capabilities on one ship at a time.

Really though, Rian Johnson just wanted some drama with a slow space chase for some reason, an inferior and convoluted knock-off of the Empires' hunt for the Millennium Falcon in TESB.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Shit happens I guess.

[Jonathan101]

Shit happens I guess.

In more ways than one.

[Winter]

Really though, Rian Johnson just wanted some drama with a slow space chase for some reason, an inferior and convoluted knock-off of the Empires' hunt for the Millennium Falcon in TESB.

The thing of it is they COULD have avoided the whole Space Chase, the Casino Planet and the entirety of Finn and Rose's subplot by doing one simple change. The Rebels come out of hyperspace and after a few moments the First Order shows up and attacks. They make another jump to get away but the First Order shows up again. Quickly realizing they are being tracked Leia orders the fleet to jump again but this time to a nearby Nebula which they do. Once at the Nebula the fleet goes into said Nebula in the hopes of losing the First Order the SD's follow them but not before Leia is knocked out during the attack leaving Holdo in charge who is more like her comic book counterpart. Cold but level headed and is more willing to work with others and given the situation the plan is obviously trying to lose the FO in the Nebula and then light speed away.

However, the question remains, how is the FO tracking them. While Poe was demoted Leia still trusted him so Holdo shares her theory with him and a few others, she suspects that there may be a spy on board as during the second ambush Leia had the computer check for anything odd and something did happen and it might have been someone sending a message to the enemy.

Holdo tells Poe to get someone he can trust and find this spy or spies.

So while there's a hunt going on with the FO looking for the Rebel fleet we also get Finn and Poe looking for the traitor. This allows us more time to flesh out Finn and Poe along with their relationship which is something fans DID want to see more of from the last film instead of introducing a character who is really just there to give Finn a love interest even though Finn has MUCH better chemistry with Poe.

We also get a rather unique space battle that is more like a Star Trek Battle with huge ships that are on a more even playing field instead of a series of dog fights and no one can jump to hyperspace because it could cause a massive explosion that could destroy most or all ships. During this chase the both sides manage to take out few ships on each side which helps build up more tension as the chase/hunt goes on.

Then towards the end the Rebels find the way out of the Nebula and Finn and Poe find the traitor who replaces Phasma role but does reveal that she survived the fight and is more then a little angry at Finn, setting up a fight between the two in E9.

This is where Holdo comes back into the plot full force as she orders everyone off the ship and to get as far away from the Nebula as possible. The reason being they can't stay in the Nebula forever due to it messing with their systems and there's a chance that she can deal with the rest of the First Order.

Yes, her sacrifice is still here only instead of a maneuver that raises a bunch of questions she instead will make the jump to hyperspace while still in the Nebula. Thus the film still gets it's visual effect of awesome without raising a bunch of questions and breaking established rules for a cool shot.

And we can see why no one has tried this before, it's a bad idea and was only done because it was the the best option out of a lot of really bad ones as while it DID destroy most of the Star Destroyers it also still damaged the rebel ships too, though not nearly as badly as they were far enough away to avoid the damage being to sever.

Of course, Snoke's ship isn't destroyed because it was also pretty far away but with the traitor taken care of that Super Duper Star Destroyer will not be able to follow them and they can escape.

No Deus Ex Machina tracking system, characters making smart choices instead of really dumb ones and no pointless Casino Planet and you still get the cool looking explosion at the end. And you get something different from Empire as while this is a chase through space the two couldn't be more different as one is a straight up action piece and the other is a more suspenseful piece.

[clearspira]

Except that neither side was able to think out of that very narrow box they insisted on looking through, plus for some reason the laws of physics decided to take a day off (you don't need fuel in space- there is no friction in space).

Actually there is friction in space. It's tiny and almost incomprehensibly negligable, but it is there, as you can find about 1 atom of matter per squarecentimeter in space. Considerably more though if you begin getting closer into a solar system or even around planets (that is actually something that needs to be accounted for by stuff like the ISS). Also, there's, for lack of a better word, drag by gravitational forces. But those also can be mostly ignored unless you are closer to a celestial object.

But, to make a less facitious comment, you do need fuel (in terms of propellant) in space to propel an object, unless your technology allows you to annihilate and create space around your ship, warp space or utilizes artificial gravity to propel you by gravitational pull and even then you still need fuel to create the energy for those drives.

Okay, I should have been more exact- you don't need fuel in space in the way the movie portrays it (I was just rushing out the door when I wrote that, in my defence).

I was just watching the movie last night and kinda got off put with fuel being a constraint in the plot. They brought it up several times by different people at different times I believe, and I just kinda wondered how it ended up getting crafted into a Star Wars movie by this point.

From what I remember they only had enough reserves of either power or fuel for one more jump to lightspeed, which would have been a futile attempt 'cause the Star Destroyers were tracking them for some reason. I can't really remember the scene where they figure out how that's happening and proceed to undo that.

It's amazing how a Resistance group that is fighting an evil empire and would logically need to be able to abandon its bases at a moments notice only has fuel for one extra hyperspace jump (for EVERY SHIP IN IT'S FLEET I SUPPOSE). Not to mention all of those SPACE ships apparently only had enough power to be IN SPACE for a few days, or a couple of weeks at most, before running out of power.

Even then though, you'd think "okay, split up" would have been suggested as an option, since it's established that the First Order only has tracking capabilities on one ship at a time.

Really though, Rian Johnson just wanted some drama with a slow space chase for some reason, an inferior and convoluted knock-off of the Empires' hunt for the Millennium Falcon in TESB.

People seem to be under the impression that when the Resistance ships ran out of fuel they were coming to a stop as a car would on Earth instead of coasting along. But I didn't get that impression at all. I thought that both the Resistance and First Order ships were constantly accelerating and thus constantly using more and more fuel. It wasn't that the Resistance ships stopped, it was that they were overtaken. And to me, it kind of makes sense that capital ship sublight engines would have bad fuel efficiency as in Star Wars you don't use sublight engines for traveling across long distances, you use the FTL. Before this all the Raddas probably used those engines for was less demanding tasks like take-off or maintaining an orbit.

I don't like defending this film. I feel dirty.

[Jonathan101]

People seem to be under the impression that when the Resistance ships ran out of fuel they were coming to a stop as a car would on Earth instead of coasting along. But I didn't get that impression at all. I thought that both the Resistance and First Order ships were constantly accelerating and thus constantly using fuel. It wasn't that the Resistance ships stopped, it was that they were overtaken.

I did think of that, but we don't see either them or the FO ships getting faster, plus the other issue is that when they run out they go on to lose all power and "sink" even though they are in space and should be able to go along regardless.

Also if the First Order ships are constantly accelerating then when the main Resistance ship stops and turns around they probably should have overtaken it by accident. As it presented in the film it really does look like they are both going at "maximum" speeds rather than getting faster and faster and faster.

[AllanO]

I did think of that, but we don't see either them or the FO ships getting faster, plus the other issue is that when they run out they go on to lose all power and "sink" even though they are in space and should be able to go along regardless.

You can only judge acceleration versus other objects (relative motion), the stars are too far away for one to judge relative motion (unless you are removing really really fast, consider we can not see the motion of the stars due to the movement of the Earth for example). So if the camera and all ships are accelerating at the same rate, it will not be distinguishable from the case where they are all moving at the same velocity and not accelerating, the relative motion will be the same in the two cases and relative motion is all we usually perceive.

Even then though, you'd think "okay, split up" would have been suggested as an option, since it's established that the First Order only has tracking capabilities on one ship at a time.

I am not sure it is established, I think we only ever get Finn-Rose's speculation about how the tracking is working, I don't think it is ever confirmed as such. So they think they can only track one ship at a time (or do they just think only one of the enemy ships is actually doing the tracking?), but if they were wrong and they can track all the ships then splitting up would be useless and prevent them from helping each other.

All that being said the chase thing was contrived and ignores or is implausible in terms of ways one might expect space ships to work, logistics etc. The thing is, if I think about it, the trench run in the original Star Wars movie was also contrived and implausible if not impossible ignoring various constraints that were or were not on the ships (and Moon sized battle stations). In my estimation the mere existence of such contrivances is not (usually) what makes a movie likable or unlikable, more about how and why it bothers you or not. Of course I liked The Last Jedi (and a New Hope for that matter).

[PerrySimm]

Possibly the most solid foundation in the film was the likeness to a WWII naval convoy. Maybe it would have been more interesting for the Resistance fleet to find, no matter where it hyperspaced to, various cloaked ships of the First Order.

Sure, Rey and Finn would need to find something else to do for the whole middle of the movie, but it's not like they accomplished anything otherwise.

Following on immediately from the end of the last film is one of TLJ's main weaknesses. Sure, toss in the rest of the meet-Luke scene at the front, but otherwise skip a year. It gives everyone else some wiggle room on their own plots.