What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

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Actarus
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by Actarus »

Surprising to see someone who hasn't seen the show criticizing it and asking for "missed opportunities..."

Anyway, I believe that the first missed opportunity is to have killed off T'kuvma so fast. They should have done it a little later in the show (episode 4 or 5) to flesh him out, show his charsisma and to really emphasize his importance in the newly consolidated Klingon Empire. Or they should have shown the Great Houses already behind T'kuvma instead of joining him suddenly during the Battle of the Binary Stars. That way, his death would have had a much more meaningful impact. Philippa Georgiou and her relation with Michael Burnham would have been more fleshed out too.

I believe that the first two episodes (the prologue) suffered from the "Hobbit Syndrome". In the Hobbit adaptation, they showed us the darkening of Greenwood the Great in Mirkwood, the birth of the Ringwraiths (while these events occured a thousand years before in the book), the White Council, Sauron's return, etc. at the cost of not developping enough other elements of the story. DSC didn't need to show us the reunification of the Great Houses. We didn't need to see T'kuvma becoming the Klingon's messiah. These could have all happened off-screen, before the events of the show.
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by Yukaphile »

@nebagram That doesn't work because that timeline was erased. And frankly I've had enough Klingon/Federation tensions since Enterprise and the reboot movies and STD. It's like people want them to be enemies again. Even DS9 did this. Can't they be allies again? That's a big fear of mine. STG will have the Federation and the Klingons suddenly be enemies... for no reason.
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Madner Kami
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by Madner Kami »

Yukaphile wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:41 pm @nebagram That doesn't work because that timeline was erased. And frankly I've had enough Klingon/Federation tensions since Enterprise and the reboot movies and STD. It's like people want them to be enemies again. Even DS9 did this. Can't they be allies again? That's a big fear of mine. STG will have the Federation and the Klingons suddenly be enemies... for no reason.
There's plenty of reasons. The Dominion War basically not just left the Federation as the sole super-power in the (alpha- and beta-)quadrant with argueably only the Romulans being still a major player (depending on whether the Hobus Supernova is canon or not and I hope it is not), but also left it and Starfleet in a ridiculously militarized state.
A weak Klingon State with a population that fears the encroachment, whether percieved or true, of an overbearing and overconfident Federation isn't something that would come out of left field. Ironically enough, that is the one thing that Discovery got right. And even if the Hobus Supernova and the resulting destruction of the Romulan Star Empire remains as canon, it argueably makes the Federation even more powerful and overbearing, only adding to the tensions with a potentially failing Klingon State.

Personally, I'd prefer a post-Dominion Star Trek that, if we have to keep it close in time to post-Voyager, would take the Romulans as their main antagonist, Hobus or not.
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Yukaphile
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by Yukaphile »

Well, you, as a Trek fan, could obviously make it work. That requires Trek fans to be working on the franchise, though, and Kurtzman and crew are not. I doubt they will even mention the Dominion War in STG since they probably don't know what it is.
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Karha of Honor
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by Karha of Honor »

Yukaphile wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:37 pm Well, you, as a Trek fan, could obviously make it work. That requires Trek fans to be working on the franchise, though, and Kurtzman and crew are not. I doubt they will even mention the Dominion War in STG since they probably don't know what it is.
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by Artabax »

Michael started the Klingon War???
Gavril Princip shot the Archduke therefore WWI, but WWI would have started on some other cause.

DIS Klingons are Nazi reptiles. I would have employed Cardassi who are already defined as Nazi reptiles. Movie 6 started with Klingons talking Klingonee and English subtitles to extablish the mood and then they talk English with Klingonee sub-titles.

If the subtitles are so vital to the story, then make the subtitles interesting. It's all Kill Kill Kill so I don't bother reading.
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by BridgeConsoleMasher »

I don't know, I think we just needed to see them interact with other allies or something. It was just constant high-tension stress whomever they came into contact with.
..What mirror universe?
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by Deledrius »

Actarus wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:16 pm Anyway, I believe that the first missed opportunity is to have killed off T'kuvma so fast. They should have done it a little later in the show (episode 4 or 5) to flesh him out, show his charsisma and to really emphasize his importance in the newly consolidated Klingon Empire. Or they should have shown the Great Houses already behind T'kuvma instead of joining him suddenly during the Battle of the Binary Stars. That way, his death would have had a much more meaningful impact. Philippa Georgiou and her relation with Michael Burnham would have been more fleshed out too.
Honestly I can't think of a good reason why Kol couldn't have just been T'kuvma. All Kol did was add some additional turns to the plot that never really mattered and didn't get enough screen time to really explain.
Actarus
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by Actarus »

Deledrius wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:03 am
Actarus wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:16 pm Anyway, I believe that the first missed opportunity is to have killed off T'kuvma so fast. They should have done it a little later in the show (episode 4 or 5) to flesh him out, show his charsisma and to really emphasize his importance in the newly consolidated Klingon Empire. Or they should have shown the Great Houses already behind T'kuvma instead of joining him suddenly during the Battle of the Binary Stars. That way, his death would have had a much more meaningful impact. Philippa Georgiou and her relation with Michael Burnham would have been more fleshed out too.
Honestly I can't think of a good reason why Kol couldn't have just been T'kuvma. All Kol did was add some additional turns to the plot that never really mattered and didn't get enough screen time to really explain.
T'kuvma wanted to united all the Klingons against one perceived threat: the Federation. His goal was not only to unite the Great Houses and stop their feuds, but also to unite the Klingon classes or castes. The "House" of T'kuvma accepted all Klingons, even the outcasts. Kol didn't want that. He wanted his house to dominate all the others and used the cloaking device from the Ship of the Dead to force other houses to join him. The outcasts were left as outcasts. It doesn't change anything for the Federation, since they are at war all the same. However, it changes a lot for L'Rell and Voq, who believed in T'kuvma's vision.
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Re: What do you think are the biggest missed opportunities of STD?

Post by technobabbler »

Even assuming STD was set in the 1966 - 2005 canon universe, canon is too messed up/conflicting (eg, no one ever seeing the face of a Romulan) for a consistent/believeable prequel.

As for STD's biggest miss----not exploring either the post-Nemesis canon universe or the post-Beyond Abrams-verse.

We know Spock and Pike aren't not dying. We know 1701 won't explode. But Hollywood/the executive suite can't help it cuz "everyone loves Spock" and STD was made to hook the "Big Bang Theory" audience, not TOS-TNG-DS9-ENT fans.
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