What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

[clearspira]

Possibly the most solid foundation in the film was the likeness to a WWII naval convoy. Maybe it would have been more interesting for the Resistance fleet to find, no matter where it hyperspaced to, various cloaked ships of the First Order.

Sure, Rey and Finn would need to find something else to do for the whole middle of the movie, but it's not like they accomplished anything otherwise.

Following on immediately from the end of the last film is one of TLJ's main weaknesses. Sure, toss in the rest of the meet-Luke scene at the front, but otherwise skip a year. It gives everyone else some wiggle room on their own plots.

A time skip would also explain away MaRey Sue's gargantuan powers. Got a feeling Abrams is going to do exactly that in ep 9 with her having received training from force ghosts and/or Leia's stock footage.
And speaking of force ghosts, we NEED a cameo by Hayden Christensen talking to Kylo. Why has he not tried to steer his grandson away from the dark side yet given how Kylo is a Vader fanboy? Why did he not try and motivate Luke at any point to get off his ass? Because currently he is sitting in whatever coffee bar Yoda has been in for the last twenty years.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think as far as what I do like about The Last Jedi; Luke's revelation about the force is really interesting, I like how he turned the convention on its head.

[Jonathan101]

I think as far as what I do like about The Last Jedi; Luke's revelation about the force is really interesting, I like how he turned the convention on its head.

The only things I remember him saying about the Force were things that either contradicted canon or were in line with Grey Jedi teachings at best, Darth Traya at worst.

There was even a scene they never filmed where he would basically have said that every time a Jedi steps in to save someone, the universe will balance it out by causing more damage in the future, the example being of bandits who would have periodically attacked the nuns the island they were on- he would have warned Rey off of intervening.

Which is basically Rian Johnson either misunderstanding what George Lucas meant by "Balance in the Force" (admittedly vague in the movies), or understanding but going with his own interpretation anyway, since that's the opposite of what Lucas meant, which is that the Light Side brought Balance and th eDark Side caused Unbalance, not the balance between Light and Dark.

[clearspira]

I think as far as what I do like about The Last Jedi; Luke's revelation about the force is really interesting, I like how he turned the convention on its head.

The only things I remember him saying about the Force were things that either contradicted canon or were in line with Grey Jedi teachings at best, Darth Traya at worst.

There was even a scene they never filmed where he would basically have said that every time a Jedi steps in to save someone, the universe will balance it out by causing more damage in the future, the example being of bandits who would have periodically attacked the nuns the island they were on- he would have warned Rey off of intervening.

Which is basically Rian Johnson either misunderstanding what George Lucas meant by "Balance in the Force" (admittedly vague in the movies), or understanding but going with his own interpretation anyway, since that's the opposite of what Lucas meant, which is that the Light Side brought Balance and th eDark Side caused Unbalance, not the balance between Light and Dark.

All I recall was him saying that the Jedi and the Sith do not own the Force. Which was already obvious.

[Winter]

What bugs me most about Luke's lessons is the question, when did he come to these conclusions? Seeing that the only the films are canon nothing in those films makes sense with Luke's thoughts on the Force and the only way this line of thinking makes any sense is if you read some of the Legends books which are supposed to no longer be canon. Why couldn't Luke just be broken, I'm okay with him losing hope and feeling that he's failed but if he should, at the very least, teach Rey something that he actually learned from the Original movies.

Another thing that bugs me is that this line of thinking of how the Force works is more in line with some of the very worst of the Legends stories and what a Grey Jedi is, at least from the stories that I enjoyed with that idea. Revan was a Grey Jedi because he was willing to be cold and uncaring because he had to make choices that he knew would cost him a piece of his very soul and only did so for the good of everyone. The ideas that Luke has about the Force, while interesting, is in complete contrast to how the Force actually works and the films themselves don't really seem to know how the Force Works.

Case in point, Rey using the Force and letting it flow through her to win her fight with Ren at the end of TFA so she can win the fight with Ren in seconds, to paraphrase one of Han's lines from, that's not how the Light Side of the Force Works! The Light Side of the Force is the way of Hard work and discipline and it took Luke Years of Training to get to the point that he could beat Vader in a fight.

Just letting the Force flow through someone so they can quickly win a fight without any real training is how the Dark Side Works as it is the easier way. Even the reasons why Rey is so powerful in the Force are more in line with how the Dark Side works instead of a the light.

She's this powerful because she's letting the power flow through her or, as revealed by the people working on this film it was also her pretty much downloading all of Ren's knowledge back when he was trying to read her mind. So she didn't actually yearn her skills she's just copied someone else's homework.

Mara is my favorite character because she had to struggle for what she earned whereas Rey just got what she wanted without actually earning it.

[Karha of Honor]

I think as far as what I do like about The Last Jedi; Luke's revelation about the force is really interesting, I like how he turned the convention on its head.

What was the revelation?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think as far as what I do like about The Last Jedi; Luke's revelation about the force is really interesting, I like how he turned the convention on its head.

The only things I remember him saying about the Force were things that either contradicted canon or were in line with Grey Jedi teachings at best, Darth Traya at worst.

That's fair, but I'm talking the movies here. So if I may, where do these contradictions take place. For instance, I doubt me or other people that are mainly familiar with the movies are familiar with Gray Jedi teachings at best.

[Yukaphile]

You mean Darth Traya at best. If they could bring something like her to canon, it would be awesome. They just failed to make him like her. You simply fail to understand the wonderfully subtle nuances to her complexity.

[Jonathan101]

I think as far as what I do like about The Last Jedi; Luke's revelation about the force is really interesting, I like how he turned the convention on its head.

The only things I remember him saying about the Force were things that either contradicted canon or were in line with Grey Jedi teachings at best, Darth Traya at worst.

That's fair, but I'm talking the movies here. So if I may, where do these contradictions take place. For instance, I doubt me or other people that are mainly familiar with the movies are familiar with Gray Jedi teachings at best.

If you are going just by the movies then Luke Skywalker went from the most hopeful Jedi in the galaxy to the most miserable and hermitic in the spandexes of a few decades, with a weak explanation that the actor himself rejected as being sufficient.

The stuff he says about the Jedi not owning the Force and that its' vanity to say otherwise is silly, because the Jedi never claimed otherwise (Rey didn't really either- he was putting words in her mouth). The Jedi, in the movies, speak of the Force as being an ally and of having a will of its' own, and of surrounding and binding all living things- they don't speak of it as a tool, yet Luke implies that they did.

He also says that they failed, because after generations of peace they lost to Darth Sidious and the rise of the Empire...except, he already knew that, and he also knew that although the survivors went into hiding, they never gave up hope and were just waiting for the right opportunity to take the galaxy back, which was supposed to be Luke himself. He seems to be suggesting that the Sith are a direct reaction to the Jedi Order and that if the Jedi hadn't existed, then Sidious would never have come along, which is not at all suggested in the movies and given what we know of the Sith, seems utterly crazy, and honestly just comes off as trying to rationalise either his own failings as a teacher or his nephews own failings as a decent human being.

[Yukaphile]

... wow, they really said that? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard! Yoda told him it was an ally. It's the Sith who treat it as a tool. This is layered all through the Legends Darth Bane novels. Just... DAMN.

Well, this is more debatable. Jedi and Sith keep fighting each other, and innocent people are caught in the crossfire. It reminds me of Atton's rant from KOTOR 2 poorly executed.