On Political Violence

[Arkle]

Admiral X, I'd like to reply to your "if you are socialist/communist you are responsible for the bad things that happened under the communist regime" comment.

You can be a communist without approving of mass violence against religious people and Stalin.

You can be a democrat without supporting Hillary Clinton and her hawkish politics.

You can be a conservative without support the Donald and whatever dumpster fire he's involved himself with at the time of this post.

...you can't be a Nazi without approving of Hitler and being pro-genocide.

That's really the crux of my argument.

There is nothing civil about promoting ethnic cleansing. You can't really say "You, and all you other queers, and your jewish and black friends, and the disabled and retarded, must be killed and burned to purify the gene pool" in a polite way. This is why I hate respectability politics. It takes attention away from the actual message, the agenda, the goal, and focuses it on "these people are bad because one of them broke a window, but look at this dapper and soft-spoken Nazi gentleman".

The reason I'm not reporting them to the proper authorities, is, well, the proper authorities don't give a frell. Surely you understand the distinction between what is legal and what is ethical.

All Nazis want me dead. They want my Jewish stepfather dead. They want most of the people in my row house dead.

The antifas are not just as bad as the brownshirts. The brownshirts did not rise to infamy by punching people or shouting over protests. They rose to infamy by setting up the systemic extermination of whole swaths of the human race.

The year of lead is not applicable here. That was two political factions vying for control of the state. Antifas don't want to take positions of authority, they aren't trying to gain political clout, they are just actively denying a platform to Nazis.

I have no moral obligation to be polite and respectful to somebody who intends to kill me and most of the people I care about.

This isn't a "difference of political opinion". This is a hard-line stance on life-or-death matters that affects me and people like me in a very real way. This is self-proclaimed terrorists, except they never get called terrorists because they have the support of the status quo and the power of institutional bigotry behind them.

Richard Spencer is now scared to make public appearances. That means he can recruit fewer Nazis and he doesn't look like a great Strong Man and he isn't going to get lots of abusers flocking to him in hopes of gaining power without accountability.

I call that a positive result.

Man, I wish it were possible to click "Like" on Forum posts.

[Karha of Honor]

Admiral X, I'd like to reply to your "if you are socialist/communist you are responsible for the bad things that happened under the communist regime" comment.

You can be a communist without approving of mass violence against religious people and Stalin.

You can be a democrat without supporting Hillary Clinton and her hawkish politics.

You can be a conservative without support the Donald and whatever dumpster fire he's involved himself with at the time of this post.

...you can't be a Nazi without approving of Hitler and being pro-genocide.

That's really the crux of my argument.

There is nothing civil about promoting ethnic cleansing. You can't really say "You, and all you other queers, and your jewish and black friends, and the disabled and retarded, must be killed and burned to purify the gene pool" in a polite way. This is why I hate respectability politics. It takes attention away from the actual message, the agenda, the goal, and focuses it on "these people are bad because one of them broke a window, but look at this dapper and soft-spoken Nazi gentleman".

The reason I'm not reporting them to the proper authorities, is, well, the proper authorities don't give a frell. Surely you understand the distinction between what is legal and what is ethical.

All Nazis want me dead. They want my Jewish stepfather dead. They want most of the people in my row house dead.

The antifas are not just as bad as the brownshirts. The brownshirts did not rise to infamy by punching people or shouting over protests. They rose to infamy by setting up the systemic extermination of whole swaths of the human race.

The year of lead is not applicable here. That was two political factions vying for control of the state. Antifas don't want to take positions of authority, they aren't trying to gain political clout, they are just actively denying a platform to Nazis.

I have no moral obligation to be polite and respectful to somebody who intends to kill me and most of the people I care about.

This isn't a "difference of political opinion". This is a hard-line stance on life-or-death matters that affects me and people like me in a very real way. This is self-proclaimed terrorists, except they never get called terrorists because they have the support of the status quo and the power of institutional bigotry behind them.

Richard Spencer is now scared to make public appearances. That means he can recruit fewer Nazis and he doesn't look like a great Strong Man and he isn't going to get lots of abusers flocking to him in hopes of gaining power without accountability.

I call that a positive result.

Do you automatically know how many people want to flock to him? Also does he want genocide or just racial segregation?

[Admiral X]

Admiral X, I'd like to reply to your "if you are socialist/communist you are responsible for the bad things that happened under the communist regime" comment.

That comment was to point out the lack of logic people are using to excuse their violence or the violence of others. You can claim that you're a communist or a socialist and not support the blood-stained legacy of it, but it's still there.

The reason I'm not reporting them to the proper authorities, is, well, the proper authorities don't give a frell. Surely you understand the distinction between what is legal and what is ethical.

Yes, I do. And while you may want the police to violate the rights of those you don't like, they can't, which is why it seems to you they don't care. Because like it or not, the shit they spew is covered under free speech. If they harm anyone or are planning to harm anyone is when the police need to get involved. You do not form a lynch mob. There is no justification for that.

The antifas are not just as bad as the brownshirts. The brownshirts did not rise to infamy by punching people or shouting over protests.

The brownshirts got their start doing the same kind of thuggery that we've seen the self-declared "antifa" engage in. It was violence to intimidate those who opposed them.

They rose to infamy by setting up the systemic extermination of whole swaths of the human race.

Actually a good deal of them were murdered themselves once their usefulness was over.

The year of lead is not applicable here. That was two political factions vying for control of the state.

That was two factions taking matters into their own hands because of what they felt was inaction by the state. Both groups also liked to blame moderates for enabling the other side. Both of those have a very familiar ring to them.

Antifas don't want to take positions of authority, they aren't trying to gain political clout, they are just actively denying a platform to Nazis.

They are violating the rights of others they don't agree with.

I have no moral obligation to be polite and respectful to somebody who intends to kill me and most of the people I care about.

There's a world of difference between that and being a thug in the street.

This isn't a "difference of political opinion". This is a hard-line stance on life-or-death matters that affects me and people like me in a very real way. This is self-proclaimed terrorists, except they never get called terrorists because they have the support of the status quo and the power of institutional bigotry behind them.

Pure fantasy on your part.

Richard Spencer is now scared to make public appearances. That means he can recruit fewer Nazis and he doesn't look like a great Strong Man and he isn't going to get lots of abusers flocking to him in hopes of gaining power without accountability.

I call that a positive result.

I don't, because I'm pragmatic enough to know better. Any neo-Nazi wannabe can learn anything they want on the internet. Also the attacks on them can be used as a recruitment tool, much as the Islamic terrorist groups overseas have used our military exploits there.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

...why are you laughing?

What about this is so funny to you?

This is...serious stuff. We're talking about the delicate balance of security vs freedom. We're talking about life or death issues. We're talking about human rights.

Why are you acting like this is a game and you just scored a point?

[Arkle]

"Anti-fascists are the real fascists."- A fascist.

[Admiral X]

...why are you laughing?

What about this is so funny to you?

This is...serious stuff. We're talking about the delicate balance of security vs freedom. We're talking about life or death issues. We're talking about human rights.

Why are you acting like this is a game and you just scored a point?

You're talking about acting like a thug in the street based on fantasies you have about good vs. evil.

"Anti-fascists are the real fascists."- A fascist.

Everyone who disagrees with you is a fascist, according to you. Unlike you, I judge people on their actions, as in, people going out and acting like a bunch of brownshirts. You, on the other hand, just accused someone arguing against the use of violence to settle political differences, of being a fascist. That's goddamn hilarious.

[Arkle]

Everyone who disagrees with you is a fascist, according to you.

Edited to tone it down, but the gist is still the same. Oh, and I fixed a few spelling mistakes too.

This is a lie that I hear a lot. And every person who says it is someone engaged in some form of White Supremacy upholding behavior. And they all think (or so they claim) they're individuals and free thinkers. All of them, to a man*. Almost as if they actually can';t think for themselves and can only parrot talking points from pro-Nazi Twitter acounts, 4chan threads, and Subreddits.

But yeah, this a pretty bog standard lie.

Seriously, why do all of you fascism apologists use that exact line, word for word? Each of you say it the same way too. "Everyone who disagrees with you is a fascist." Yes, everyone. That's why I called Chuck a fascist for not liking Repo the Genetic Opera. Oh, wait, no I didn't. That's why I called my BFF a fascist for liking Sex and the City. No, wait, that didn't happen either. Oh, well, if it's everyone, I must've called Bernie Sanders fascist for not sharing my views on gun control. Whoops, that isn't true either. In fact I voted for him in the primary. Did I call The Cinema Snob a fascist for supporting Hillary during that same primary? That would also be a no. I could go on and on really, with political, social, and pop cultural examples but they all ultiamtely add up to the same thing; you're a lying shithead.

No, Admiral X, I don't call EVERYONE who disagrees with me a fascist. Just those who express fascist/fascist sympathizing views. If the number of people calling you a fascist keeps going up and up, maybe it's time to step back and ask yourself; "Is it me?" I mean, I hardly ever get called that, and when I do it's by people who says stupid shit like "You think everyone who disagres with you is a fascist," so I can safely ignore them.

And before you reply to this post, do try to come up with something I haven't had thrown at me by hundreds of other people in the past 2 years.

* I have heard it from women on rare occasions, but between 95 and 99% of the time it's cisgendered men, so I feel comfortable saying "to a man."

[Karha of Honor]

"Anti-fascists are the real fascists."- A fascist.

Define what is a fascist today. What do they believe? What books define them?

[Arkle]

"Anti-fascists are the real fascists."- A fascist.

Define what is a fascist today. What do they believe? What books define them?

This is a good starting point. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

[Karha of Honor]

"Anti-fascists are the real fascists."- A fascist.

Define what is a fascist today. What do they believe? What books define them?

This is a good starting point. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

Okay, how many US citizens advocate that?