STD - The War Without, The War Within

This forum is for discussing Chuck's videos as they are publicly released. And for bashing Neelix, but that's just repeating what I already said.
Post Reply
User avatar
SuccubusYuri
Officer
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by SuccubusYuri »

MightyDavidson wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:20 pm
RobbyB1982 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:29 pm Yes, its incredibly stupid.

But it is the reason they gave for why he wasn't immediately noticed as a Klingon.

Also the show wanted some of that sweet Game of Thrones torture porn that Trek is so well known for.
But they WOULD have noticed he's a Klingon. There's still Klingon DNA in there after all, they couldn't possibly have replaced all of it. He'd have read as an incredibly maimed Klingon barely clinging on to life sure but a medical scan still would've told them that this man's a Klingon.
I'm going to be SUPER generous to Discovery here, but I'd argue it's not AS dumb as it comes off? Or at least, it's not dumbly-INCONSISTENT with Trek in general.

I don't think that surface scan tech is as advanced as it's sometimes conveniently written off (Trek-CSI-effect, if you will), because even in the 24th century we see that Bajorans have a hard time finding Cardassian deep cover agents (go a step further to the original ending of Second Skin they wanted it to be inconclusive, which yes, didn't make it in but it wasn't abandoned for scientific reasons, but character ones). And the Feddies didn't realize about Seska until she was cracked open like a walnut. Enterprise IS an earlier era, but they also have trouble differentiating human life signs from alien ones, in that bit where they need to lock onto T'Pal to get the away team back. And the Drumhead's plot has a not-insignificant plot point about not detecting Romulan DNA until it's deliberately searched for, which yes, is very close to Vulcans, but they are a mortal enemy of the Federation and you think that's something they'd check, at least once, in the Academy or during commissioning. And while it might be argued that Cardassians and Bajorans are semi-implied to share a common ancestor, and thus closer to the minor deviation between Vulcan and Romulan, Klingons are enough like-Humans that injecting a buttload of Human DNA into them doesn't result in massive organ failure, and they seem to be more compatible than say, Klingons and Trill, so there might enough leeway in there to fall under that category.

Which, makes sense. Like, when we hear "four life signs, three human one klingon", or from the movies, "population 9 billion, all Borg", they're probably not scanning DNA and amino acids at range, much more likely they're...for lack of a better term, racial profiling with the images they get back and approximating as best they can. Surface medical scans probably do the same thing without taking genetic samples, because it's inefficient to run a DNA test to fix tennis elbow.

Discovery's problem is it does fall apart that while you might buy that Ash gets away with sneaking into the Federation, transferring to a top secret project without a deep scan seems reckless. ...Which isn't entirely out of character for the Federation.
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Yukaphile »

Btw, I love your avatar. :)
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Zoinksberg
Officer
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Zoinksberg »

SuccubusYuri wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:07 am
Which, makes sense. Like, when we hear "four life signs, three human one klingon", or from the movies, "population 9 billion, all Borg", they're probably not scanning DNA and amino acids at range, much more likely they're...for lack of a better term, racial profiling with the images they get back and approximating as best they can. Surface medical scans probably do the same thing without taking genetic samples, because it's inefficient to run a DNA test to fix tennis elbow.
Your examples aren't wrong, but I would argue that the conclusion is (though I say that any time I hear "Discovery isn't that dumb" ;) ). We are talking about someone who has just been rescued from a Klingon prison after many months and has been brutally tortured. Extremely extensive medical scans should be routine for someone that underwent that level of physical abuse, looking for every possible injury and any implants such as a tracker or explosive (the very next episode featured someone whose body had been modified to act as a bomb, seems prudent to assure rescued prisoners aren't rigged to explode). Also brainwashing and Stockholm Syndrome are real enough today, shouldn't a brain scan be standard procedure when returning a POW after a long imprisonment?

And there is no getting around that this technology was readily available. Culber found that Tyler's skeleton and organs were altered after Tyler had to ask (?!) him to perform the scan. A brain scan showed enough to lead to him deducing what had happened. So apparently bringing a POW back from months in a prison just means a routine exam and pep talk, then you are free to go check out the warp core unsupervised. Discovery writers make technology exist or not exist from day to day depending on what fits best for the day's story. In such a serialized show this is nothing but bad writing.
User avatar
Makeshift Python
Captain
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Makeshift Python »

FlynnTaggart wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:57 am
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:39 am Don't you think it's more practical to just yell at the screen when the show is on, have the producers cancel it, then try to take another wild blind guess as to what the fandom wants?
Practical? No, though it might be more fun. The only real flaw is actually watching the show to yell at it.

And its not really a wild guess. Fan response at best has been highly mixed, some evidence points to viewership numbers not being great such as CBS All Access not doing gangbusters, Rotten Tomatoes has Enterprise season 1 with a higher audience score, and on fan sites the response to Discovery has not been super positive.

You needn't have a crystal ball or to guess to see that at the very least Discovery is not winning over some core fans and thats being highly charitable towards the show. The producers don't need to be geniuses to figure out what is not working with the show, didn't need to be geniuses to figure out that some of the points of contention for the show were things that people were going to whine about even if the show was good, should have known writing terrible plots and unlikable characters is not going to endear people to your show well before pen was put to computer screen. Its not like all the mistakes from "dark and edgier" sequel to continuity snarls hasn't been done before and shown to be things that can hurt a show.
Truthfully ENTERPRISE's first season would have likely had an even lower audience score at the time it came out if RT was as big then as it is today. I'm old enough to remember just how SAVAGED that show was at the time it came out by so many Trek sites. Most fans are only more forgiving of the overall show these days because they think the last season redeemed it overall, but I'm glad Chuck never got soft on those early episodes.
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Yukaphile »

Chuck should eviscerate these early episodes just as harshly. And this isn't the early 2000s. We've had to wait a year and a half before Season 2 came out. I guarantee it won't improve. At all.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Makeshift Python
Captain
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Makeshift Python »

I rather Chuck just be Chuck. For example, I don't get his hate for Pulaski, but that's his opinion and I wouldn't ask for anything else.

His reviews for DIS has so far been perfectly fair, giving the show props for where it counts and pointing out the absurdity of others. If all I want screaming nerd-rage, I'd just have to look for the first Midnight's Edge video that pops up on search.
User avatar
Karha of Honor
Captain
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Karha of Honor »

Yukaphile wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm Chuck should eviscerate these early episodes just as harshly. And this isn't the early 2000s. We've had to wait a year and a half before Season 2 came out. I guarantee it won't improve. At all.
Care to elaborate why it won't improve?
Image
User avatar
Makeshift Python
Captain
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Makeshift Python »

Because according to Yukaphile it took away Kirk's "pioneering moment" from discovering the Mirror universe. This is the exact kind of fan complaint that was prevalent when ENT started, that Rick Berman made a prequel series so that he could take away Kirk's status as a pioneer in space exploration with the introduction of Archer, because he hated TOS or whatever.
User avatar
Karha of Honor
Captain
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Karha of Honor »

Makeshift Python wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:10 pm Because according to Yukaphile it took away Kirk's "pioneering moment" from discovering the Mirror universe. This is the exact kind of fan complaint that was prevalent when ENT started, that Rick Berman made a prequel series so that he could take away Kirk's status as a pioneer in space exploration with the introduction of Archer, because he hated TOS or whatever.
Discovering the Mirror Universe sounds more like a fuck up to me.
Image
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: STD - The War Without, The War Within

Post by Yukaphile »

It's more than that. Losing your racism by sleeping with a Klingon? Employing the "bury your gays" trope? Dear God, STD is a flaming debris field.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Post Reply